SPEAKER_02 0:08

You're listening to the Creative Download, a podcast to inspire and encourage others to live in the fullness of their creativity.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Well, hello. Hey Christie. Hey guys. Welcome to the Creative Download. As you can see, we have another lovely guest today. Um, very excited to introduce her. We'll give her a little bit longer introduction here in a minute, but this is Rebecca J. Kenna, um, artist and painter and um novelist, writer, amazing writer. So, yes.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Hello, Rebecca. Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Um yes, so welcome to the creative download. Gosh, we're episode seven of season two. Yay, Chelsea. We've made it for seven. We keep doing it. Um, we keep making it and showing up. I just realized I'm like, oh, I'm gonna put our notes on here so I can actually see what I'm talking about. Yeah. Um, we like to keep things super casual around here, but um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Um structure. We have some structure.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

It's a it's very little structure, but we have some little bit of structure, but also keeping the flow. Yes. Um, yeah. So today on our episode, we um we realized we really wanted to talk about failure. Um it kept popping up. And if you guys follow us on Instagram, um, we kept finding some really good quotes on failure um and and and success. Um, and so we just thought, you know, that's kind of a perfect thing for today, especially because my dear friend here, um Rebecca, one of her um kind of catchphrases in one of the courses she teaches is fail magnificently. Yes. So um, but yeah, so before we jump into that, um, we'll do kind of our usual. Um, what are well, I'm always bad about remembering to tell people. Follow us on YouTube, um, like and subscribe, follow us on Instagram, we'd love it. Um, we try and post things that are, you know, relevant to our audience, other artists. Um, we try we're inclusive of all art as much as we can. Um, so yeah. Um, but yeah, so Christy, what are you working on right now?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Well, this fits for the topic today. But first, I want to say just to add on thank you to everyone who has been listening because I do get text sometimes from some of our listeners, like, hey, when's your next episode coming out? I haven't seen it. And so thank you guys for following along. I know we have some followers, which is um, so this song, Chelsea. Oh my gosh, this song has been so intense. So we've been working on a song for a long time, and it's very um uh and we got it all the way full through production and we decided Lori, right? Yeah, we my co-writer Lori. Yeah, and we decided to present it and we um to our group, and I've talked about this before that um, you know, Lori and I met, we went through like a songwriting intensive together. So we got really good at like just getting the song itself like um really good. And then now we're in this, you know, basically like production intensive is what I would call it. And it, but the focus is more on writing songs, but with sync licensing in mind. So you're not writing for sync, but you're thinking you know, you you think of that as you're right, as you're producing. Yeah. A little different. So we're really confident in the song. The song's really good. It didn't hit the mark, it did not hit the emotion. Oh, oh, because you you did the listening session.

unknown 4:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Oh no. So Chelsea, you can go listen to the feedback, but okay. Here's the thing, and it's the so if today we're gonna talk about I don't think failure really is failure, right? I don't think it's creativity. Um, and and we're gonna talk about that edge edge sheer and quote, which I really, really love later. But this is a perfect example. So, what I'm working on this week is really going now. I'm going back to the drawing board, the song is done, like the song itself. And if you're listening, there's I this is important, I think, for people to understand that by the time you hear a song that's released, the number of times it's actually been worked on and worked through is a lot. And so this is really a good example because I used when I taught songwriting to my middle schoolers, they would always compare themselves in their songwriting process to the end result song that they were getting, which had a lot of um, a lot of hands in the in the in the kitchen basically to get it there.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And so we're still in the process. We thought we were done, but what we, you know, what we're trying to hit is this emotional mark with this song, and it didn't hit. Oh no. And so we got the feedback was, you know, um, the delivery of the the vocals um wasn't as an emotional as they wanted it, which I was like, okay, and that the music and the vocals together really didn't have the prosody that it needed, and prosody really is like when the music and the vocals go together to help create that really that emotion. That's what you really love in a song when you hear those together. It didn't hit. Yeah. So that's okay. Um I'm it's far enough, which is this is important too, is like I'm far enough in being able to take critiques on that, yeah, know what to do to go make it better, right? So called my vocal coach because I took a break, you know. Right. I'm like, can I come back? You know, I need to do this song. I need to, and and you know, when you get feed the this group that we're in, when you're in a really good critique um group, they're gonna they will give you specific feedback, as you know, Chelsea. So we've been given physic, you know, very specific feedback. So this week I've been like listening to reference songs. So I actually have four avenues that we could go, which nice is nice about writing songs with sync in mind is you can do a couple versions. And if you can get a couple different versions out in a song, it's really cool because then you have it's not like when you record for yourself as an artist, you might just do one style. You can kind of do two or three styles in sync. So back to the drawing board. I have four reference songs, so a lot of active listening. Um, and then going back to my vocal coach and saying, okay, I have more work to do in this. Yeah, I don't see it as a failure. And if you get to the Ed Sheeran um, you know, quotes, uh it'll make sense what I'm saying too. Yeah, so that's where I'm at. Like and this song, okay. So the thing that's cool about this song is when when you have a good song in this group, because I do believe this song is really good. Uh they're like, this song deserves to have it be, you know, the very best that it can be. Right. Don't give up on this song. So, like, we got a lot of that feedback. So that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Which I well, I feel like uh this might be a new short segment for our podcast. I think I might have messaged you about this. Is what have you failed on this week? And that's honestly that's it. Yeah, that's inspired. Yeah, no, I mean, but like moving forward with our with our episodes, I think we should do that because you know, talking, let's talk about our failures, let's talk about the things that taught us, and again, we'll we'll I just happen to catch this video um that Ed Sharon did on and posted on social notes great about success versus failure. So we'll get into that. But it was really inspiring. And I'm like, you know what? I'm passionate about failure and reframing that.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I know what's another word, let's let's we have a wordsmith with us today, so we're gonna have to as we go, maybe we'll find in this talk a word that's different than failure. Cause like it does get like a negative um Americans. Well, that's why it's Americans.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Yeah, I like how she words it fail magnificently. Fail magnificently. Like you know, so, anyways, yeah, we'll so yeah. So, how about you, Rebecca? What are you working on?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

What am I failing at? So many things. I am an expert failure.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_01 8:50

It's very exciting.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

We should have like one of those like for like anytime we talk about failures, like a little like so true.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yes. Um, I am actually uh polishing up my novel that I will be um publishing in July. I'm really happy. And then also I am launching my my uh publishing imprint this summer as well called Lines by Kenna, and I'm very excited about it.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Do you want to explain that a little bit? Like because I had never heard of an imprint like oh, that standpoint, okay, until you told me about it. Gotcha. Yeah, so for just for like layman's terms, like is I mean, is that just a publishing? Not just, but is that a publishing company?

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yes. Okay, it is a publishing company. Um, the difference with Lines by Kenna is gonna be that it's um more uh cross-format storytelling. So um musicians, art, writing, hopefully getting into um like uh video games and stuff like that, and just basically creating a space where creatives can come in and be collaborative. So yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Is this going to be in Durango?

SPEAKER_01 10:07

This is actually just gonna be online. Um yeah, I kind of transitioned from Durango to Washington, so it's it's going to be everywhere, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yeah, that's so hopefully it'll make it nice and accessible, you know, to any artist anywhere really um that you know kind of fits again. It's it's like anything where it's like if you if this feels like a good fit for both sides, yeah, then yeah, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Um and I've got some great authors who are really excited about it. Yes. I have an incredible musician singer who's going to be I didn't I didn't ask her to do that. I'll see you later.

unknown 10:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Um but so her her song is going to be part of the world that I'm creating in the imprint with my novel.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

So it's it's really so exciting, which was cool because we didn't we didn't know that was gonna be a thing. She'd already written the novel. And then I played this song for her because I just, you know, I like sharing my stuff with her. Um, and she was like, Oh my god, this is this is my character that's supposed to be in my book, and I was like, Well, okay then. So the lyrics will be in there and then there'll be a link. Like, we're gonna figure out a way to have the link to the song and you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

So well, gosh, I'm sure on if you do like a a book audiobook, you would probably be able to do that too, right? If yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

That is my hope. I am uh I'm a little shaky on audiobook production, so I'm actually gonna be pursuing uh another master's in publication and creative writing and stuff like that, specifically because this particular program goes into audiobook production and that sort of thing. So, and some of the genres that are fiddly and aren't really my expertise, like a memoir or screenwriting and stuff like that. So to be able to support writers and be able to be a good imprint, I need a little bit more um, more of a broad base for it. So I'm really excited. Audiobooks are like my passion, and I would love to actually have like the singer singing songs for like if they show up. Because like the Lord of the Rings, uh those are songs. Like it should be like they should have people singing 100%. That's the point.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

100% immersive, immersive, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

That's that's that's my jam. Yeah, yes, I'm so excited. Love it. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Um, yeah, and then I am so on that note, one of the things I'm working on is that song. It's called it is called Sound of the Stars. Um, so I will be um I'm I'm yeah, it's it's interesting. I'm I have failed a lot on that song in a great way. I have failed magnificently because I've tried it a couple different ways. I've you know, the way the song originally came to me was just vocals. And I think I've I mean I've talked about this before. This like I realize it's kind of my ways, brain's way of orchestrating, but I'm thinking that this song, this may not be one that is orchestrated. This may go, I may go back and have it just vocals. I love it, you know, including the percussion and you know, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

So you know, the minimalist kind of songs are coming back right now. I hear that a lot. They are, yeah. Stripped down. I think we got so oversaturated with like all the heavy production this last like 10 years, and then AI coming in and doing that. So now it's like just these really I've played for you that um black hole sun uh stripped down that galaxy. That was really cool. It's just so I mean, you have a voice like that, Chelsea, that you can do it, and it's just absolutely captivating.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah, well, I appreciate that because that's I you know I tried producing it out a little bit more, and I'm like, you know what? It hit me one night, and I was like, maybe I need to just bring it all back. So so I think that's the route I'm gonna go. I might do kind of two versions too. I mean, that's a nice thing. Yeah, that's a nice thing is there's a no limit to like I can, you know, the song is not required to be one way, which is nice. I mean, I used to think that way, and I'm like, oh um, same with art pieces. It's like, oh, you know what? I want to take this and I'm gonna make it like this, you know. But um, so I'm working on that, and then I'm still working on a song called Sinking Under. Um, that um is more of like you know, would be really good for a a dramatic, like a medical drama or something like that. The pit's hot right now. The the that's oh yeah, it is, that's true. That show, yeah. Um, so I'm working on that. That one's another one that I'm I am producing it out a little bit more, but I'm still trying to keep it a little bit more minimal, which is really challenging. Um, and uh again, failing magnificently because I'm trying different things. I'm like, you know what? That I don't like that, that doesn't work. Which if those of you guys that don't know me, that's really hard for me because I'm such a time efficient person, which is hilarious because I'm late almost all the time, but I think that's because I try to be so efficient with my time because I'm like, no, I'm gonna squeeze this in, and it's like epoxymoron. Yeah, like, oh, maybe this doesn't work. Um I'm working on that, but um uh so I hate feeling like I'm wasting time. And I realized with my art again, it's not a waste. Oh, excuse me. Yeah, it's not a waste. So oh, I'm excited. Okay, so we'll get we'll get into that because I yeah, I'm excited to jump into our into our topic with that. But um, yeah, so those are oh, and because of this lovely lady right here, I'm taking, I uh we're finishing up. I can't believe it's already over almost. It's already over. Um, she teaches a five-week um creative writing class that is I was even though like she's a dear friend of mine, I was really nervous about the class because I'm like, oh, what if I'm bored? What if I, you know, I've tried taking creative writing stuff before and it, you know, I loved like I loved my grad program. I loved screenwriting, but but that was a little bit different, you know. And I was like, what if I just and she's my friend, I don't want to what if I don't like it? Yeah, you're doing great, you're doing great. I love you. I'm done. I'm so bored. It's been amazing. We talked about that with when Brita was on. Yeah, um, it's been phenomenal and not only beneficial for my novel that I have officially started, um it's opened up things with all my other art, you know. Like I'll sit down and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna sit down. I have, you know, I've got 45 minutes. I'm gonna plop down, fail magnificently working on this song. And if nothing comes out of it other than I tried something, it didn't work, great. It's been wonderful. So amazing. Yes, yeah, well done. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Um, isn't that so fun, Rebecca? You I could see your whole face light up when you're like, because as a teacher, you're like when the student actually get to like yes, accomplish something that they are wanting to do and that that it clicked. I could see that for you.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

So I'll give a shameless plug, a non-shameless plug. I'm super proud of her. Um if if there are writers out there that are your this is what I was telling her. I was like, this is how you need to advertise it. Are you a writer who's afraid to call yourself a writer? The writers in disguise. Yeah, what'd you call your friends writers in disguise? Writers in disguise. I love writers' friends. You know, where it's like, I want to write, but I can't, I either can't move forward or I can't figure out. And then you're afraid to tell people you're a writer because you haven't, you're not successful, you haven't done anything. We will have a link to her course. It's a five-week course, it's very reasonably priced. Um, and in fact, you she's worth a lot more, but she's giving her services for this cost, um, so that so that it is accessible. Um so we will have a link for that. I will probably plug that a couple different times in this episode because I'm very excited about it. So with that, so with the course, your big tagline, your big thing right from the beginning was fail magnificently. Where so let that's a great place to start with with you and your art. Well, I promised I would give her a little bit more of an introduction. I always I always forget that part because I'm like, oh, we're already we're already here. But you I just I forget you guys don't know this lovely lady. Um, she's phenomenal. I've met we've known each other for about five years now. Um, and when we first met, it was like we we knew like we were going to be in each other's lives and then continued to get to know each other. We're artists. Um she is and and this is not just because she's my friend, she is a phenomenal painter. Um, she can draw, like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna make her blush, but but because she is very humble, like, but she also knows her skills, like she's a she's a confident humble, a good kind of humble.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Um, I know my limitations and I do know my strengths. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

And I like she does this cool pen and ink thing. I think yeah, and I may throw some. We'll have your link to your uh website. Yeah, but on uh with the YouTube one, I'll probably as probably right now, I'm going to be posting, you know, photos of you some of your art. So that would probably be over our conversation right now.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Well, and I think you do on your cause this I thought was cool, um, that you can also purchase some of your ink um art for tattoos.

SPEAKER_05 19:35

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

I haven't seen that with a lot of artists. So yeah, I and I really love that style.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah, she thank you. I can't wait. Like, I I definitely have some tattoos that I want her to be designing and and or her to like be like, hey, this is the general idea. What comes to your brain? I want that. So yes, that's another plug. If you are if you were if you're in needing some tattooing is the correct word, needing some tattoos.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I might need you to draw me a fox. I'll have to talk about the fox later because I know you do animals and you do doing animals. But I have a fox story that I'll tell later, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Oh my god. That's fun. Okay, I like this. I like this.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I love foxes.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Um, but yeah, novelist, she's you've been writing forever. Forever.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, actually, and and since I was a kid. Yeah. Okay. I think the first time I the first time I picked up a sketchbook, I was five. Nice. My dad was an artist and he was like, all right, honey, we're gonna go on a date.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Oh here's how we sketch. Oh my god, that's so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah, it was amazing. And then I right around seven, I started writing very bad poetry, and then I just gave that up real fast. That was a proper failure, though. Proper failing magnificently, that was like a no-such thing as bad poetry.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

I don't think there is. I think there is I think there is.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I do some of mine, um, and I will just take you to a new place.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

I think that there is poetry out there that I'm like, nope, I'm maybe there isn't bad poetry, it's just not my jam poetry.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, maybe I so I like some poetry. I'm very specific about my poetry, and it's kind of hilarious the ones that I love. But like, as far as like reading, writing, and interpreting for the most part, unless it's like super like like T.S. Elliot's Wasteland, where it's all like it's a treasure hunt of cultural references throughout time. If it's not that, I don't really want it. Yeah. I don't want it. I'm not an intellectual puzzle. Yeah, I don't want to like mourn lost love. Unless it's unless it's Keith's and it's you buried your lost love in a basil plant. I like the more basil. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Yeah, I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I'm not surprised at that. Poetry is great. You know, like action and axes. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Let's do it. So you tried so you tried your hand at poetry. Um, and then you've you've um how many novels have you finished now? Uh one, two, three, five, five, okay. We've got one coming out this summer, and then a couple more that'll be coming out um yeah, yeah, over the probably the course of the next year or two.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah, my hope is to be able to publish like one novel a year of mine and then work with other clients, and then also get some of my my art and short story books out there as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yes, children's books. Yes, she's yeah, so she's an illustrator. She's gonna be illustrating actually one of our friends' um books, um, kids' books, which is awesome. I can't wait for that.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

She's such a great story.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Oh, it's gonna be it's gonna be so great. We should have her on too, because you should. Um, I think that that would be fun because she's a writer. She's yeah, yeah. All right, L. We're calling, we're calling you out, girlfriend. Um, we're gonna have you on. It's gonna be amazing. Um, so she's illustrated. She has her own kids' book that she um is a very visual, um, which is oh, it's beautiful. Um, so that will be like lots of stuff that'll be coming out. Um, am I forgetting anything from like you do? And what kind of you do watercolor?

SPEAKER_01 23:21

I do watercolor acrylic on canvas. I do pen and ink. Um, I actually do pottery a lot, but I I just haven't had a studio in recent years. Totally forgot about pottery. Yeah, I love pottery.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

So much fun. Yeah. So you've definitely got the the the verbal and then and the physical, yes, which is cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Um, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

And I teach. Yes, that's been my career, and that's been my art, honestly, for most of my life. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah, so pretty cool, pretty cool lady. Um, we will have a link to her website so that you guys can um see some of her art. I'll throw some up here in um on our YouTube video. But um yeah, so it was so just so great with the class, you know, doing that. We're five weeks ago now. Um, and that hit me so hard. The fail mag like in such a great way, fail magnificently. Um, and I'll read you this other quote. This was so cool because this came up today in a newsletter that I read. It happened to be from our um local used bookstore, their newsletter. And I was like, was not expecting this. I'm like, oh my gosh, this fits so well. Um, this is from Dead Poet Society, but one of the um uh employees, it was her quote of the month that she really liked. Um, medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for. Love it. That is what we do as artists. I mean, that is, you know, um, but talking about failure, failure has such a negative connotation. I I like to I've been separating now lately failure from mistakes. And even mistakes, depending on the context, shouldn't have a negative. Yeah, but yeah, like when you what what got you to that point where you started realizing this is a very important thing to talk about right from the beginning?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah. Um, well, part of my background for I was a university teacher for 10 years, um, writing, teaching academic writing for 18-year-olds. And teaching academic writing. Academic writing. Okay, yeah. Um, so arguments and rhetoric and all that kind of stuff. Okay. Um, and I actually heard uh fail magnificently from one of my yoga instructors because I'm also a yoga instructor. And um she just as just as a very brief, she was like, you know, we're going to fail, like walk the edge of your capabilities and fail magnificently. So go to a failure, but pull back. Like don't play with that line. And I was like, I'm a I'm a massive klutz.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Which I which I always forget that because you are so you are actually so graceful too.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

It's it's a weird I am a walking oxymoron, but like just most of my students, like I I would just randomly collapse or fly through the air like a cartoon in the middle of teaching. And I literally talked about it. And then we're teaching yoga, more teaching your classes to your writing classes. So like I'd hit the ground and I'd be like, all right, this is a 50-minute class. We can't waste. I'm gonna be here for a second. Everybody, I want you to write on this topic. We would continue writing, and they'd be like, Oh my god, this this woman just was awesome. But I heard that and I was like, hey, that's like me, and like a phrase that's fabulous. This is my life. But then, like I have a great sense of humor because I have to with that kind of yeah, you know, but then I started like realizing that I was dealing with 18-year-olds who were alone for the first time. And I my dad was amazing. He actually the first time I failed a class, I was I got heavily compressed in um college, and I couldn't take the 18 hours. I had to drop down to 12, and I got a D in one class and I got an F in the other, and I called my and I was like, I have shamed the family. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm gonna take myself out of school and I'll just work with her. I mean, it was like full on. I would have felt that too if that were me. Horrible. And my dad was like, you don't learn from A's. Yeah, you learn from F's. That's so great. And he, my dad told me that when I was 18. Yeah. And every student I've had since then, every student I've sat next to, every student I've taught, no one else has ever been told this. Yeah, and I was like, you know, I wasn't told that. Right? And I I'm terrible at math. I don't do numbers, I reject them entirely.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

I try and reject them, but the but the IRS doesn't like that. That's true. That's why we have accountants.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Um so I actually like I'm terrible at math. I was in college and I was like, I want to learn astronomy, and that has math in it. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take my dad up on this and I'm gonna try and get a D. Like, because I can pass the class and I won't have wasted the money, but there's no reason why I should take this class. This is a terrible plan. And I passed with like, I think it was a C, maybe it was it wasn't great, but it was math. And I and I just wanted to learn about the stars. Yeah. And I was like, I did it. Why don't I just do this more often? And uh, so then when I got into teaching college and dealing with 18-year-olds and going, I remember astronomy, I remember stepping outside of my comfort zone, and most of these kids, these students, hate English. Oh, yeah, and they had to take my 20s. This was this was comp one, comp two. Yeah, like they can't escape. Yeah, and most of their teachers did not equip them to enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah, that I'm not surprised. Well, the system too of what the teachers have to teach, exactly. It really kills the real writers because I taught that. I taught I taught it to humanity, and it was awful. So I mean it's awful what I was expected to teach and to to sneak in some creative writing or some to get them engaged, you know, it's like my job, but yeah, that was yeah, and I taught um middle school writing for one year.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I made it one year of English and was like, nope, not yeah, but you know what? But coming back and going, all right, the goal here is we are gonna write and we're gonna fail magnificently. And my expectation for you guys is for you to actually fail, yeah, to not know what to think, to just throw up on a page and see where your brain takes you. And and I had so many students like literally light up. Yeah, and I had I had students who came to me like years later and were like, that phrase changed my life. You kept me from suicide, you kept me from dropping out, you kept me from following this guy because I was like, You are not a magnificent magnificent failure, you're a miserable failure.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

I'm going this way. So they applied it to the rest of their life.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah, and it and it was genuinely just like a well, I can't, I can't walk across a flat surface without creating a cartoon situation. Let's just embrace this mantra and be like, haha, this is what I did. This is what I did. And and then I was like, I think I think this is a great opener for a class. Yeah, because it immediately throws all of the students off their expectations, and it creates some space for them to actually possibly like writing. Yeah. Or discover that they are good writers. Right, right. So and um the thing about writing is it's recursive. So you have to get something out, yeah. Otherwise, you can't complete it. Yeah. So if you don't fail and go, wow, that was a terrible plan. I didn't that doesn't make any sense. You can revise it. Yep. You cannot do that if it's not on a page. Right. If there's nothing there, there's nothing there to revise. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so and that's the thing about books. Like with um our course, um, and I've had so many students who do this in across across the board where they're like, it has to be perfect when I write it down. Right. And it's so funny because I'm like, you're scaring your pros. Calm down. I love that you're scaring it. It's yeah, and when you read something that is written in fear, you feel that fear and you don't resonate with it. But if you're writing in passion, it can be kind of not the greatest type of writing, but you feel the passion and you feel the thought and the interest, and that's what saves writing.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

So and on that note, I mean, with the class, like you've helped me to experience that and also to um to to have like that just freed it up to be able to actually get stuff down, like you said, um, and not not worry about it, not worry about, you know, what's this gonna be like? Um I had a I had a thought that I it's totally out of my head, but I'm sure it'll come up again. But it had to do with that, you know, where it's like it just felt so free, where it's like, okay, great. If I write this thing and it's terrible, okay. And the fun part, I mean, and this is just kind of a neat thing about writing, but honestly, you could probably apply it to any art. Um, because this day and age, you you almost can't be an artist if you're not doing social media. I'm not saying you can't do it, you do you. But the neat thing is any of those failures or any of those things that you're like, you know what, I'm gonna try writing it this way. Oh, I didn't like it. But guess what? You can use it down the road on your socials or in a newsletter, or for like your VIP readers, you know, that you're like, hey, I'm gonna release, you know, she's been teaching us about point of view, you know, writing from different point of views on our stories. And I'm like, I have many point of views now in a couple different scenes that I might release down the road. They probably won't be the way it's written in the book, yeah, because it'll I'll be using something else. Yeah, but I've got that to release later, and it's so fun because then you've got this whole like rounded out, yeah. Nothing really is wasted. I think that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

That's it, and that's that's why failure is magnificent. Yes, when you because even we were talking about this on the way over here. Um, I've ruined a piece of art twice so far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Due to set clumsiness, is that right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Maybe maybe that and and I was I was too tired, and I was doing a pen and ink, and you have to have steady hands, and you have to focus. And neither which I have, yeah, right. And it was it was jarker, and I was um, I was trying to finish season one of Stargate SG1, and I was like, I just love it, and I just have it on in the background while I'm doing my art. And um it was a to be continued oh, that's right. So I was like, I thought, okay, I'm just gonna do this for two hours. It'll be great. I'll finish this the season, and I'll be like, hooray. No, it was there was another episode from season two. I was like, are you kidding me? And I was like, just I was so tired. It was starting to get a migraine, and it was an ocular one. So when you're doing black and white, it's kind of a problem that you're trying to do something visual. I really this is an actual genuine failure because I was like, no, it's not, I'm gonna complete this. Did I complete it? No, no, did I even complete the story? No, just and then and I like I was like, okay, we're like five minutes from the end of this thing, and I went to do the border. I never do the border of my pieces until I'm done with the piece. Oh, oh, okay, that's cool. And I was like, I'm like, I just started this piece, I'm gonna put in the border. I I literally drew lines straight through my piece where they cannot have lines because it completely messes up the figure that I had in there. No, they call off their head and their fin. Oh no! No, the sharks don't work that way, and I just went and then and right as I did that, it said to be continued. And I went, I and I closed everything, turned it off, and I went to bed.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Like, we're done. In that case, you found out that this is not the way this is we don't do the borders until the end. So, but that actually it really is. I mean, that is a great example of like some of the things that we learn when we when we fail.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

When we just try to push through the story and just go past the point of I should have put this away a long time ago. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

I realized, okay, yeah. A lot of times we don't figure out our limits, we don't figure out exactly unless you push them. Yeah. So it's like that. Um I'll so that's like kind of perfect um to chat about the so Ed Sheeran posted a video. Yeah, he's he's really cool, dude.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Like he's just transparent about what it takes to be Ed Sheeran. Yeah, you know, I just that's really yeah, and then we've nobody does that.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yeah, and he's just so he's so I mean I don't know him personally, but he seems very authentic to me. He seems very real, down to earth, um, and is more than willing to talk about the good and the bad, the the failures and whatever. And I'm not even gonna say failures and success because to me, they're not mutually exclusive, correct? Like they're not opposite ends of the spectrum. No, and what he talks about, so this video, and if uh again, if you guys are on our social, um, I'll try and post it again because it's I posted it to our story, which of course only lasts for 24 hours. Um, I'll try and post it again and then save it to our highlights because it's just it's one that I need to look at a lot. Um, but he basically like to sum up what he says in there, he says, you don't you flat out you do not learn from from success. It's that is not where you learn, that is not where you grow, that is not where you find your limits or push your limits. Yeah, you learn everything from your failures, you learn everything from failing. Um if you don't, you know, like Christy, like this one of the songs you were working on, and not just this one, but I know you said there was another one in the past that you were really pushing yourself to try and figure out like there was a way that you wanted to sing it, the way that you wanted it to come out. Um and and and you worked on that, like, but you wouldn't have known how to get there without trying different things or without sharing it.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

See, I think that's another thing. Yeah, the whole in sharing um conversation or what he talks about too really made me think of Jason Moraz because I started songwriting when I started writing songs and then really started going to like open mics here. Uh Jason Moraz was there too. He wasn't Jason Moraz, he was you know, here like working out his songs and vocal. So he's a great example. So I I always share with this, would share this with my students because they would see the Jason Moraz, and he's great, he's a great performer and he writes really good songs. But I was on, you know, I would be in these songwriter showcases with him, which is like, you know, you'd get invited to do two songs, you know, with a local songwriter. San Diego has a lot of really good local songwriters. And so we're working out our songs. You know, I have recordings of those old songs that I did, and I'm like, oh, a couple of them actually I'm gonna redo. I feel like they're from the 90s, but I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna do them now and run them through what I've learned since then. I mean, this is third year, right? So but I'm up on stage just singing, so sharing where you're at when you do like going to open mics or these songwriter showcases, or even the um my favorite are to do the songwriter rounds like Nashville style. Every once in a while we do those here too, where you only share a couple songs and then you get to talk about your songs, you know. But it's sharing them with people where they're not perfect yet, which is where you it's really hard. I mean, I I still to this day do not like doing it live. I don't mind recording it and sharing it and having someone give me feedback, but there's something about being there and singing it and being on stage and then having like the critiques come to you after it. So most of them unsolicited at some point. Right. Right. And and imagine being on your go after Jason Moraz. Oh no, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No thank you. He was working it out too. Yeah, right. So like he wasn't perfected, and he's still not perfected, but he had all that, you know, ability to like get up, and he was really uh he was doing it all the time. So and I loved that um Edge Jaron says too that success comes from failing hundreds of times, hundreds of times, yeah. And Michael Jordan talks, but there's a lot of basketball players and sports, sports is a lot about failure before you get success. But you know, I I just I feel like with art, it's different because for one, it's intuitive to what we're doing and what we're trying to. So, like we're uh yeah, the word failure. If I'm so for me, I guess I have a per I had a purpose in this last song, and that was I want to convey this emotion that I thought I was conveying. And if it's not hitting, okay, how do I and you know, how do I hit get this emotion, hit this emotion for the receiver? So like I have an I have an intention. So I think having what's the intention of what your art is, sometimes it's just for me, right? I don't care what you think. That's like the full-blown artist. I don't care if you like it, right? Not for me, I'm not for filming this, but I was trying to, my intention was to reach others, so I did want this emotion to hit now. One of the things that it did is it pissed people off. It did, yeah. Why? You gotta go back and watch the um replay.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

This is another one. So that's also a reaction I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Oh, awesome! Congratulations!

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Oh, the song pissed people off the the topic of it, the what you were okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

I was like, What if you did achieve your purpose? That's amazing. So that's part of it, a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

So I don't want to lose that part, right? So it's like, oh, I pissed them off. Good.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

You know, that's interesting because like art of any type is communicative, but it's also expressive. So if it's not communicating with whoever you're sharing it with, that's that's half of the equation. But also if you're still expressing yourself, maybe you're at the wrong audience. Exactly. You know, and and I think that's that's the hard thing with creatives because it's so intrinsic to who we are. Yeah. Sharing it and getting a reaction that isn't what we expected can be devastating. Right. But but if you can remember, and that's one of the things I really love about writing is you have to write for an audience. So know who your audience is. And if they're not in your audience, respect their opinion, right? But know they're not who you're writing for. Right. And it takes so much pressure off with my painting. I do watercolor. Probably someone who likes oil on canvas is not gonna like my stuff. Valid, valid. Sure. I don't like painting with oil.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Yeah, I don't either. I respect it. I don't like oil either. Actually, I I like your watercolor. So there are people that like oil and don't like water. Yeah, that's totally fair. So it is a very different feel, a very different emotion.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Yeah, exactly. And that's totally valid. So if you can like remember and have your intention. Attention, like what you were saying, that that changes the game and allows the magnificently and the failure to come in instead of just going, Oh, yeah, I'll never do this again. Yeah. Which is the true definition of failure. Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Which oh yeah. So go ahead, Christy. Well, no, it just made me think well with music, you know, with songwriting. I think in America we've gone through this phase and it went through the Dixie Chicks, definitely had this whole house. Oh, Dixie Chicks, yeah. It's like, oh, they were our music is just here to entertain us. There were there, we've been through this kind of phase of like Americans are very arrogant. I'm really like upset with our c our country right now with all of this. I'm a Californian, I like to say, but like as a whole, like, you know, shh shut up and sing, uh, you know, shut up and dribble, um, like kind of trying to take the voices from our artists. Oh, right, right, right. Um so I've always like when I was recording and playing live, people would always come up to me and be like, why do you write such depressing music? Like, you don't look like you should be doing that because they write an image of what I should be doing. I should be entertaining them. Yeah, like I'm not here to fucking entertain you. Right. You know what I mean? I'm here to and um one of the best things I read, because I because I that made me I had to fight against that idea of that I'm failing because I wasn't getting I wasn't pleasing the audience. Right. And I I had a conversation. God, I wish I remembered his name. He was another songwriter. Oh my god, Carlos Almeida. Hey Carlos, if you ever listen to this, also local songwriter, fantastic songwriter, and he and I had the song conversation. I was really struggling with that every time I'd get up and play in these songwriter showcases. Now, if you listen to Jason Moraz's music, you know, he's not like all depressing. No, yeah, all this, all the music going on around me, too, in our world and was all very like comedic sarcasm songs. Oh, okay. And Jules had just left. She had just flown off from San Diego to go on tour, so her music kind of took off, but then it was like I didn't get to meet her. She was already like on her way on tours and stuff when I started. But they they it was all very comedic, and then I'd get up, and everyone would wait, I need a whiskey.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

I know. Yeah, everybody get a whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

And I'm gonna sing about, you know, death. And I'm gonna sing about it very sad. My goal was to make people cry.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Yeah, the goal was to make people cry.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

I wanted people to cry. I actually, yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

A really important piece of art. We need to be able to valve our own.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

We need to emotion, but I think you should be given a heads up.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Uh oh.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Do you know what I mean? Like, I think when you're preparing yourself.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

I can't use a movie.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

I'm saying that. Yes, yes, that's so intense. Yeah, I'd get up with this bright red guitar and I'm in my 20s, and I'm like, I'm all like cute, and then I'm like, we're gonna say everything is I think it's why people compare me now to like Lana Del Rey, because she's like that. She's got a very melancholic sound. That's like my favorite. And so people wouldn't that doesn't it? They wouldn't be prepared. Yeah, they would come and then they would be crying and they'd be pissed off at me because I've one of it was kind of intrusive, right? Like I'd be like yes, true.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

Because I do get I do actually get pissed off when I'm forced to feel emotion because it's very easy for me to emote, yeah. Um, whether I like it or not, if I'm not prepared properly. Like I my husband knows very well. Yeah, yeah. If we're gonna do it, all of a sudden the songwriter's like talking about suicide, it's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

So I was so that kind of felt failure. I because, well, first of all, I'd say yes to every gig. And so that would not work. So now when people ask me, I just got asked, my my coworker opened a coffee shop and my bosses were like, Oh, you should play. And I'm like, Oh no, you don't want me to play at the coffee shop. They're like, What do you mean? If you were selling whiskey, maybe, but I'm like, it's not, I write dirges, like I write like death songs, like Irish in me, but like oh yeah, she can appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Yeah, it's it's fun because I was struggling with that too with my friend. So playing live here. Um, I I've been trying to get up the courage to to do some some songwriter nights um with a with a group here that that is really good about putting things on for local artists. Yeah, and I'm calling myself out and I'm the I I'm saying this on the show so that you guys have to hold me to it. Um, because last night I was ready to bow out, but I am in a songwriter night on June 8th, I think it is a small little intimate songwriter night in the indigo room. I've never been there, but here downtown or here in Durango. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I I'm doing it. Oh god. And but I asked my friend, I asked my friend um Kyle, who plays um down here. Um, I was like, what do I like? I was like, Kyle. I feel like songwriter nights or low, you know, playing live local, you need to be bouncy, you need to be bubble, it needs to be happy, it needs to be, you know, like you were saying, you know, con coffee, coffee shop. You know, you don't want people walking in and being depressed. And I was like, it depends on the coffee shop. Yeah, this is depend. But I was like, what do I? I was like, and he looked at me like lovingly, he looked at me like, Are you are you an idiot? Like, no, sing, sing whatever it is you're supposed to sing. And he's like, Yeah, and he's like, tell tell the story. Like people love most song, he was like, most songwriter nights around here are a little bit more somber, maybe a little bit more, a little bit darker, a little bit more, you know, storyteller. And I was like, Oh, down to the stars. I hope you're gonna do that. I was thinking about it. I think that one is sinking under, maybe. Oh, yeah. Um but both of those are one of them's very cinematic, one of them's very dark, you know. So I'm like, okay. So I'm like, all right, that's what I'm gonna do. And if and if it's crickets at the end of it, fine. Yeah, your audience isn't exactly magnificently exactly 100.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Crickets at the end when you're singing a powerful song that hits emotion, don't I used to interpret that's true negative, that's true. It's more that sometimes the audience is like absorbing, absorbing it. Yeah, they and then they don't know, like I remember people didn't know if they should talk to me.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

That's why all be prepared for that, just in case we will avert our eyes.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

It was really well, okay. Just back to the sad songs. I just want to say this was so exciting to me when I heard this years later. Brene Brown interviews somebody, uh, and I don't remember her name either. It'll come to me in a second, but she wrote a song, wrote a book all about sadness. I think I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to go back and look at what the name of it is because I remember listening. Was it called Bittersweet? Yes. Yeah, I can't remember the author, but I have that book. Okay. In that book, she talks about they actually now that we can track like how people listen to music, when they they did a study on people listening to sad music versus like happy upbeat music, people listen to sad music 800 times more than they listen to. Right. Yes, and I was like, Yes, my goal is to like write the best like sad batch, like CD. Now we don't playlist, playlist called. And you put it in your you listen to it and you drive and cry. Like that's like that's like my goal. I think it's so good for people to do that.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Very cathartic. Yeah, my uh once again. I had this was a great conversation I had with Kyle. He was like, um, what so it was one of those random things. So we used to work together, and he's like he would ask random questions of of all, you know, all of us that were working, just fun, fun, thought provoking. Um, or just fun random stuff, like what you know. Zoe, are you trying to be on a podcast? She is, she's my my are we we've got a live studio audience of Zoe. Um and she's a little noisy and a little stinky sometimes. Um but he it was great because he was like, you know, he's asking each of us like what um when you're when you're down, what do you listen to to to get yourself out of it, to make yourself feel better, whatever. Ever this was the weird part though to me. Everybody else, which it's there wasn't a ton of us, it's not like a huge pool of people, but it was like, you know, there's two other people. Well, Zoe, maybe she's louder than Puget today, right? I know, like Zoe says hi to everybody. Uh uh, she distracted me. Um pool of people, yes. So the other two people said different things, you know, like I think one of them said like hard rock, you know, that's like super like you know, kind of that like get your frustration out. And then the other one was very, you know, bouncy, bubbly, do a leapah type stuff, you know. Oh yeah. Kyle's like, what about you? And I was like, um, do you know Billy I Billy Eilish's um um song where she basically is talking about suicide? Yeah. He was like, What? I was like, I it makes me feel better. If I if I listen to and sad stuff, it releases and releases it. And he was like, It doesn't suppress it. Yeah, it was interesting to me that I was like, that seems like a very normal thing. But so yeah, it was interesting. It was it's it's and see for the songwriter night, I'm gonna have to be very careful not to overexplain, overintroduce, and almost apologize for it being dark. But I do like what you described where you're like, you'll you kind of need to give a heads up, you know, and maybe I'll and maybe that's what I will do with. I don't think I need to do it with sound of the stars, but with sinking under, you know. Um need to figure out I I feel like I would like to figure out a brief intro for it that does prepare people, but doesn't apologize for it. Yeah, that's and and yeah, and then trigger warning, yes. That's a good that's yeah, that might be all it is.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

No trigger warning. I think live when you're listening, so there's a difference between when you're watching a show and you hear a song or you're in your car, you're on your own, you have a sense of privacy where if the emotion hits you, yeah, you're you feel it. But if you're watching live and you're with the artist and you're live and you're not prepared for it, I think it just you know, music is so connected. I mean, literally, like our sound coming out of us connects. It just is an interesting thing to think about in that way. But I do think you should go and feel magnificently that night.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

Yes, yeah, you should be. Yes, I am I am very excited and honestly, like with that new not that it's new to my brain, but it's almost like you gave it um permission to really fully like start living that way, yeah, just because it was like, okay, so I'm not I'm not wrong in that thought. Like there are other people out there that you know believe that. So that's yeah, it's like relating that then to the rest of my life, you know, because it really does like it's opened up so many things where I'm like, okay, we're gonna try this. And if this doesn't work, cool. I now I know. Yeah, I mean, man, I failed magnificently in my dating life because boy howdy, I figured out all of the things that I did not want. That is important, you know, and I I find this interesting. So I think back to um when I was an athlete, um, and and you know, thankfully still am. I she I've gotten into indoor rock climbing. It's only indoor for now because I will be building up to it. I am currently failing magnificently. Um I I point to her because she's done outdoor rock climbing for many, many years. Um and she's an indoor. Um, but I but I, you know, so I relate it to back when I was a diver, for example. Um, you know, why is it that as athletes, you it's almost like you are expected to fail. Yeah, except maybe not on the competition field. Right. But you it's like they push you too, you know, when you're when you're doing weight conditioning, yeah. You are pushed to the point of failure, um, all different kinds of things. Um, but I think with diving, I'm like, good fucking lord, since we've already dropped some F-bombs, we're just gonna keep on with it because oh my god, I thanks to Renee, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:32

Didn't Renee kick us off on that? The cussing Renee. It was her name, Renee. Who came that was um your oh Robin? Robin. Well I didn't think who's Renee, Robin. I'm so sorry, Robin. Robin kicked us off on cussing. She gave us permission to cuss permission to be like, you know what, this is what we do.

SPEAKER_03 57:50

This is sometimes those are the only words that work.

unknown 57:53

It's true.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

But oh my god, I hit that water so many fucking times hard. Yeah, how you know how to do something right, yeah, you know. Um why, you know, and so it's like, why is that okay in athletics, but not in art, but not in art? Yeah, so I really like I there's definitely like yeah, it works against the critic that we have that I like.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

It's like almost like a mantra. It's like I I believe we have these critics that show up. Yeah, our inner critics, right? Oh, definitely show up. We've been talking about that, like the imposter syndrome and all that in prior shows, right? That no matter what level of success you've made and gone to, because we talked about Elton John in a prior um episode, having admitting his imposter syndrome and his yeah, self-doubt, and how that critic can get going. And if you have a really good counter mantra, I'm a big I'm a big believer in mantras that if it's if you feel it and you go and you know that's gonna work for you. Oh, yeah, you know what? I could tell my critic now, you know what, F you, I'm gonna go fail this, you know, this wonderfully or magnificently, and you can just take a backseat for right now. You know, it's just it's a way to like identify and counterbalance that. And I think we don't always know. So some listeners may be listening and go, I don't even have a critic. I would have been that person to tell you that a long time ago. I think it's it's because you you're so used to that voice that you don't even think that that's not. I just think it's your voice. Yeah, it's a critic that you've been carrying around, and so that's such a good mantra. Um to and you know, the but our business coach, our real estate, because I sell real estate for a living and to make a living and doing that. And we've had this great business coach, Tom Ferry. I talk about him every once in a while, and he said, This was probably like seven or eight years ago. He he said to like 5,000 of us he that he coaches, and he said, I want you to go out, I want you to make the biggest mistakes you can make. Yeah, yeah, I love that. And it was like somebody gave me this like permission slip to go do. I I it was so helpful for me. I'm like, because I was new at it, and there's a lot of contracts and money, and I was always like livelihood, like or not livelihoods, but uh so I'm there yeah, you and but we came up with a mantra that we're not here saving lives. Yeah, love it. Yes, there's a life saving, no life saving in real estate.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

Yes, so true, yeah. And I think with the the failing magnificently, I mean, kind of going back to um your intention. So I think I think those are the two things that that it's not even that those should they're not even like precautions, it's more of just a fail magnificently, but it's also important to know your intention behind whatever it is you're doing, yeah, um, and your audience. So whether you know, who are you who are you sharing this with? Who, you know, because because I mean, we and Christy and I have talked about this a lot. Like there are certain people in our lives, like I don't share a lot of stuff with my mom. And it's fine, like that's not a bad thing. Um, because it's not really like what music, writing, a lot of my stuff is not her style. So it's almost unfair to her for even my and even my husband, like he's supportive, but it's not his style, you know. So I'm not gonna go to him for critiques, I'm not gonna go to him for, you know, I don't want just a oh, just build me up. Every once in a while, I'll be like, hey, listen to this, tell me I'm good. I just need that today, you know. And by God, he will.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

Good job, Dan. Good job. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

I'm like, oh job, Dan. Um, yeah, you know, but but so knowing your intention, knowing your audience. Um, I like what you were talking because uh that makes me think back to when we had um Dave Hill uh Jr. on the show. He was great. Hi, Dave. Um it still sticks with me, by the way. What you told us um in your book. So he's got a book, Doubt Writing Shotgun. It's great, actually. You'd really you'd really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

Sweet.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

Um, but naming your critics, getting it out of it's not your voice, it's not the voice that's in your head, naming your critic. And I don't know if you heard that episode, but I named mine Regina George from um Mean Girls. Because I said, Oh my god, it's totally Regina George. So I'm like, you know, so talking about critics, you know, I'm like, Regina, get in the back. Okay, shut your mouth, put your blindfold on, tape your mouth. What do you do with you about your critics?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Yeah. For the chorus, like me, I have a chorus.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

You have a chorus, the green chorus. You've said get in the back, Regina, a few times in conversation. Did you just call me Regina? Oh my gosh, that's great. She says it. I did not actually know what that means. Now you know. Now it makes more sense, which is so interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

I've never been called Regina before. You're like, I've never, I don't even that's so. I'm very delighted that that happened naturally because I don't remember saying it, but I can see myself doing that if that makes sense. Anyways, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

What how do you deal with your inner critics? My inner critics, um a few different ways. One, I acknowledge the fact that I'm still alive. Love it. That you know, that's a great start. And there are so and there is a lot of uh context behind that. I've had a lot of injuries and accidents and um life stuff, a lot of life stuff. So, like the fact that I am still kicking. Yes, I feel like you legitimately still alive. Still alive. I'm like, you are a cockroach, you are the hardest thing to kill on this planet. I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

So you're much more beautiful than a cockroach.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

Just so you know, I appreciate it. But just like taking a minute and going, you know what? Looking at my context and going, what have I come through? And I'm still here. Yeah, and I still have the capacity to dream. Yes, which is amazing. Um yeah, and I and I think I I every I would say about every six months, I kind of like write down what I've been through. As kind of a reminder about that. Yeah, yeah. And then because I am an athlete, but I've been injured a lot. And um, and so I have to like when I'm like, I why am I not rock climbing? Why am I not doing yoga? Why am I not doing martial arts and stuff like that? I'm like, you know what, Rebecca, you've been injured for two straight years. You're doing great, right? And so it keeping myself really grounded in the actual basic reality, yeah, is important for me because that's where it starts. Yeah. Like, I'm we're still here. Yeah, I've got time.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Yeah, I'm not dead yet. I'm not dead yet. As the great poet from Monkey Python. In G.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Actually, I know. Exactly. Um, so so that's honestly my baseline because it's like, you know, this is everything that I've been through, I'm still here, I'm still alive. And then on the other hand, it's like it look at all the things I've created. Look at all of the places I've been, the people I've talked to, the people I've met, the the things I've grown from. And so it's a very interesting, like, I have to look at the negative and go, damn, I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

And then I love that. And then I look at all the positive. I'm like, and on top of surviving that, I'm actually wanting students to be able to fulfill their their novels and their their possibilities. And I'm the one who's cheering them on. When I could just be like curled up in a corner, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

And you have every reason to be curled up in a female position and going, oh my god, my life.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

Right. And instead, I I'm creating a business that is going to facilitate people's dreams. You know, and and even when I'm, you know, just being a barista or a liquor salesman or doing whatever I have to do to survive, I know. That at the end of the day, everybody who comes in contact with me has a reason because I've come in contact with them to have a better day. Yes, I love that. Because I'm like, hi, hello, I'm here, and I'm gonna laugh now.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:15

And if you guys haven't been able to tell yet, she has a phenomenal laugh. Thank you. That's what I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

But but it's it's genuine like knowing your impact, knowing the limitations that you've been through and the choices that you're actively making in life, even though like I'm I'm not where I want to be. I I wish I had published this book 10 years ago. There are so many other books that I've tried. Life got in the way, I got injured, I'm you know, had financial difficulty, I moved, and you know, and all of the stuff that I've been through. I'm like, you know what? I'm still I'm I'm still doing this. I'm still doing this.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:54

Despite all of that, you've been able to accomplish so much. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Yeah, and then and then it's actually been really freeing to be like, oh, instead of just teaching writing, why don't I actually like publish writing and art? Because I will mentor people through this and I will make sure they actually get published, and I won't be someone who's baiting their creativity out of them for the business sake.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

And I and so I was like, okay, we can do that. And so I started work working on that. And then suddenly I looked at I looked at the body of work that I have. I have five novels, I have uh a children's book, an illustrated short story compilation, I have um a comic series that I'm working on, and I have like a dozen other ideas, and I have like you know, art runs and stuff like that. I have so much that's going on, and I'm like, you know, I don't have to create another thing from this moment on, and I've still got 10 years worth of work that I can just publish and I can just polish, and then while I'm doing that, I can help everybody else coming along. And on top of that, I'm like, ooh, but I have an idea for another story, and so I'm building that too. Absolutely. So it's not like when I when I did that, because I was just following where my identity and and the my skills and limitations are taking me. I went, oh my god. And for the first time in like 10 years, I was encouraged about my own creative output. That's amazing. And I was like, hey, like, hell yeah. It was like I was planning this all along. So weird. Look at the failing magnificent, yeah, because I was a failure that I didn't get all these things published, and that you know, I got taken in on a couple of things, and I wasted a lot of time and money, but now like it felt like it at the time. It felt like it was a waste and a waste. And now I'm sitting here going, wow, all right, I can just take it easier for the next 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

Yeah, no, I love that. That is a really good, I'm gonna call it a formula. I know you don't really have it like written down as a formula, but like I don't do numbers. I don't either, so I don't even know why I'm using that word, but I can not do mental math. Like, don't ever ask me. Um, but what you're doing, which I like I the way I interpret what you do, which I think is good to like say back, is like first you do some reflection, right? Like, so you take time to write maybe you write it, I don't know, but I feel like I would write it, you know, writing out like, okay, these last six months or this last year, where have I been? And that's such a to reflect on that, the positive, the negative is such a self-connecting thing. So it like allows me to get that. This is how I would perceive it. It would allow me to get out of my critics, my head of where I should or shouldn't be, to really, like you said, ground it into reality. However, what you also do, which that's powerful enough right there, I think, too. But the fact that you then come around and take that understanding and knowledge and actually reach out to other people to help them to do it, is like tenfold. Do you know what I mean? Like it just Yeah, coming out of yourself to focus on so it's like a it's like a I mean, so if you're listening to this and you're wondering, like that is a formula to try, you know, to sit down, like you're saying, Regina. No, just kidding, Rip. Just had to do that. Um just like write out, like look at where you've been and where you've come through and the things you've come through in your life to be where you are today, and the positive things you've done or are doing, or and and and that just is so connecting, you know. And then when you can connect that with other people, it's like the the magic happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

Yeah. And I think what's what's interesting with that is um when you the the essence of any artistic uh creative endeavor is to connect with people. Yeah. And yes, express yourself. Absolutely. But if you're not connecting with people, then kind of what's the point? And as a teacher, career teacher, and as a creative, um, for me, it's always been about the the people. And usually I battle myself as like you are not showing up for these people very well. You're not gonna behave for yourself, you're not showing up for yourself. Yeah, so you can't do that. And so it's been when I lose sight of connecting with people, that's where I get put into my darkest spaces because I'm not creating. Yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:00

Oh, and we've talked about that before.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Yes, and because creating is like, oh, I want to share this. And as soon as I finish a painting or something like that, there are there are a few people, there aren't many, but there are a few people in my phone that I'm like, can I show this? No one else gets to see it but you do. Yes. And it and it's just kind of like when I finally and as a teacher, like I could I could tell when I walked into the class and the class went, oh I was at. Yep, like that really like you can't, and they're 18-year-olds, like you can't, yeah, they're babies, they're babies, like developmentally, they're pre tall preschoolers with a bigger vocabulary.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

I are at such a weird age, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

It's it is, it is, and so like I took that very seriously, and that honestly, I had to do it the opposite way, where I was like, what impact am I having on my students? And how do we fix this?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

So if there are any teachers listening to this, pay attention because that is a magnificent way to look at how this the classroom energy is. Most do not do not do that. I want to commend you for that because when you look at like I'm the one that might be affecting the whole mood or atmosphere of the how can I change that? That kind of self-reflection is imperative to like really making a difference for people.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:37

So yeah, I'm so glad to hear you say that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

You know, this has been amazing. And I feel like, like a lot of the topics we have or guests, yeah. I think we need to have her back on. We need part two. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we could keep chatting. Um, and this is amazing. So thank you so much for being on.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Um can you tell us your date though? To are you doing another workshop soon? Do you have another one? Oh, yeah. You are let's plug that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

Absolutely. So I'm gonna do um the same course that Chelsea just finished. Um, it is a five-week course and it will start on Tuesday, May 19th. Oh, great. Um, it is online. So um if you're in Mountain Standard time, it's gonna be 6 30 to 8 30 p.m. Okay. But I'm I'm not limiting it to Colorado because I I kind of pop all over this. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

I have some friends that listen in Switzerland, and then I that she may, you know, and then um California and other areas too. So we okay and same with you, Chelsea. We've got people kind of all over listening.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:40

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so we'll put the link um to that to the info to get signed up or just to look and see if it's something you'd be interested in. I I can't recommend it enough, um, you know, especially as wanting to be a novelist, um, in addition to the other writing that I do. Um, and it's just really opened up a lot of my other creativity and um it's just it's so interesting. So yeah, so we'll have links to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

Um I will say really quick.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:07

No, please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

This is a time-intensive course. It is okay. So because what I one of the things about this, and this is not a huge spoiler because it happens on the first class, um, is we write. So I have supported writing sessions um two times a week. Um, and then we also do one-on-one um consultations specifically to your work. So there is actually like a decent time commitment that has to happen. And so if if that's not your thing, I will continue to do these. Yeah. Um, I'm also a writing consultant. So if if you can't like connect with the actual course, we can meet and you do editing too, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

I do developmental editing. Developmental editing. So yeah, yeah. So if you're a writer out there that needs an editor um or you're trying to get things going, you know, yeah, you can reach out to her and see um see how she can help.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:03

And I like that you're saying developmental edge, because what I hear that what that is, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're helping a writer to develop their writing, like to edit as they develop the writing. So it wouldn't at this point till your publishing company is done, probably not to be published, because you can go to an editor that's a publishing editor, and they're gonna edit you, help you edit based on the publishing contract or getting published. Right. But a developing editor, which I love that isn't am I right? Is that am I understanding it correctly?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:37

So, yes, so it can be like someone who helps you brainstorm and figure out what you're doing and how to um kind of work it. But also it's like after you've gotten your draft together, we look at all the higher order concerns, so plot, characters, conflicts, point of view, that kind of a thing. And so then we kind of help you refine your ideas and organize things so that it has the maximum impact and basically elevate your manuscript. So, and then if you're with a publishing house and you have a contract, then the developmental editor is someone who like does that to the vision and the purpose of that particular publishing house. Gotcha. So yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

Yeah, so she's yeah, so she does a lot of consulting, different things um that you can hire her for. Um yeah, so wonderful. This was wonderful. And you know what, honestly, like this is this is you know, our our like the podcast. I feel like Christy and I every week, well, every time that we record, we record with the purpose of failing magnificently because we don't have a strict outline. We've got we've got a template that we follow just to make sure that we kind of keep ourselves organized, but we don't know what's gonna happen every episode.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:57

We just don't know how it's gonna go, and we just trust that we will fail magnificently. So so hooray for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

Yeah, and I love what Christy said before we started, that it's an intuitive process. Yeah, because that actually like yeah, allows the magnificence to come into the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:16

Yeah, and I think Zoe agrees. She gave us a Zoe's so engaged with that. She loves Rebecca too.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:22

So I think she's really engaged with that too. Yeah, so that's true. Yeah, it has been a little bit. Um thank you, Rebecca. It's been a pleasure meeting you're on the show with us today. Likewise. And again, follow us on Instagram, YouTube. Um uh yeah, and I hope everybody has we we hope everybody has a great rest of your day, um, whatever you're doing. And remember, fail magnificently. All right. Bye, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:53

Thanks so much for listening to the creative download, hosted and produced by Christy Bruneau and Chelsea Lee, edited by Chelsea Lee.