this is the creative download hosted by Christie Bruneau and Chelsea Nettleton created by creatives to inspire and encourage others to live in the fullness of their creativity well welcome to the show again it's episode 3 happy Friday I'm Christy Bruneau I am a singer songwriter a script writer and also a former hip hop dancer still Wanna be backup dancer on the Grammys or maybe even like in like Bruno Mars's show or something I mean that's like really crazy fun hey Bruno if you listen to this yeah if you listen to this um we have a backup dancer for you okay um she's she's fantastic she's great um uh yeah so last week we did you know things on earth talked about um you know clearing the channel and then what do you do once that channel the download managing yep which is so funny cause I was thinking that while you're talking about um teaching yes while you're with your students while you helping them be creative yeah uh yeah so one thing we wanted to share was again thank you guys so much for listening yes like it's kind of neat cause we get to see you know in our um podcast hosting um site Buzz Sprout yes we're not um what's the word why am I blanking on what word that is uh we're just here to share you're not sponsored we have a sponsor today but it's it's a supportive sponsor we'll share later but we're not sponsored by Buzz Sprout but I'm very happy we're very happy with how it's all laid out uh so our website is through them but we can see our stats yes between the first and second episodes so happy about that yes yes you know I we just wanted to share that with you um we also did get some fan mail and I wanted to let you know we we if you do it through the website which is totally fine it says um text us we won't be able to respond directly there you know you know in the episodes as we can when we do you know if we do get mail that way but you can also email us at hello hello at the Creative Download podcast great yes hello com sorry for the long name yes so there are some ways you can get in touch with us we do have our social pages set up now yeah um that's our username so uh and YouTube is coming that's coming so you can message us on you know Facebook Instagram and YouTube or send an email I'd love it we'd love to be able to like answer some questions um on the shows so you know what are what are some of the things that you're struggling with or maybe some breakthroughs you've had you know we'd love to share your stories on here or maybe what you would like to be doing that you're not doing yet I would love to hear that yeah um on that note I found this this was just this was just too cool to me I literally saw this yesterday and how perfect is this so I saw it on Facebook I did share it to I think I shared it to our Facebook page I need to share it to our Instagram as well so y'all can see it um this was just really cool I've heard about a lot of these uh I'm I'm looking over here at my other screen cause I've got um got it all listed up there it's actors and actresses that you would that that are very well known uh well most I think most of them are yeah there's a couple of them yeah artist that you know it talks about where they were before they quote unquote became who they are now yes I love this yeah we know about Oprah but she was fired from her first reporting job yes um and I certainly won't read through all these was it Morgan Freeman his his was a good one he's like 52 I think right when he started acting yeah first major role so he was probably acting a lot before then yeah yeah it's never too late yes I love him dearly I wish he was still with us but Alan Rickman he actually uh huh yes you know and if he was still with us he'd be killing well that maybe that's not a good word killing it uh yeah you know he would be he would be killing it um cause he's he's fantastic and he started at 42 yeah yeah you know my I I selfishly I find it amazing for my husband too cause my husband would love to be an actor yeah don't give up like you just never know it may just not be the right time yet you know and then it's going back to like in the first beginning episode like meet yourself where you're at right so whatever it is that you're thinking about that you're interested in doing or you've always thought the back your head you know I would always love to do that it's like start where you're at you know so maybe you've maybe you haven't done any kind of like theater acting since high school or maybe even younger than that when you were little and then you decide I really wanna try that again we'll go to a community college like take a class that's what I did with singing I decided when I when I realized I really wanna try singing I took a class at sand at the San Diego City Community College and she was an opera singer and I Learned about you know using your voice as an instrument and how to really work that out and how to sing and that was my kickoff into my songwriting and I was in my I was 25 or 26 at the time so you know it was scary but I did it yeah that's so funny my my first vocal like my first vocal coach that I stayed with for a while like stuck with for a while cause I had a hard time staying on you know staying up with those kinds of things yeah she was an opera singer too yes she was amazing so Doctor Louis if you ever end up listening to this I love you I miss you and my teacher was Penelope Penelope Hawkins yeah Penelope Hawkins yeah you are instrumental in our lives yes yes and then um oh and I bet you know so the other thing I wanted to tell you guys is we set up um the really cool thing about Buzz Sprout is you can set up a support option nice yeah and you wanna support us we would we would love it I mean we love the support you know just from listening um but if you do feel the desire to support us financially we have a subscription option where it's you can start as low as like $3 a month yeah $10 yeah you know that would just help us with the things like you know the time it takes to edit you know we're both just producing this ourselves and so we we'd love the support I mean no no worries no pressure no no anything just just letting you know it's there so if you go to the Creative Download podcast com you'll see a little button that says subscribe super easy cancel any time yes yes before we jump into our theme here Chrissy what have you been listening to this week or what have you noticed you know creatively I'm writing songs with my co writers right now we just are working on two new songs but one of the things that um George are co writers recommended was watching um Andrea Stopol I think her name is Stopol that sounds familiar yeah and she has like a two hour course oh it's free it's on YouTube I'm always learning as a songwriter I think and I do believe with songwriting I can do that the rest of my life uh huh 100% yep yeah I mean it's like the first like 10 or 15 minutes she's like really look out like what is it that you like about songs all the favorite songs that you can think of when you hear a song you're like yeah is it the groove is it the rhythm is it that so she gives you this assignment and so I went and made this playlist of all these like songs I love and I realized like was probably because I was a dancer haha oh my gosh so much yes her name is Noga Eres and she's an Israeli singer songwriter um and I don't wanna mess up her co writers it's Ori Russo and Ron Jacobitz okay that's awesome the way she delivers it's not really quite hip hop okay very raw um great sound very authentic yeah I have a few of her songs the vandalist I have to listen to her that sounds awesome I I'm with you I like and I I was a wannabe dancer I was not very good at it cause I was a gymnast so I was very I'm very like stiff and like you know those motions but I still I love rhythm and drums and um the bass so I totally get that there is you know I was always jealous of my teammates um cause they always got the cool songs and I got the ones that I was like what why haha but that you know that's that's trauma for another day um haha um no that's cool I have to listen to them um for for me let's see what have I I've been okay this kind well this will this will be perfect cause this kind of works into what I'm working on but so be what I'm listening to right now is um I have a playlist of uh songs that I would like to emulate or use you know use for some reference songs again you know it's we love going back to that you know as an artist you know find a reference that you know for whatever it is you that you may do so for me you know on you Christie it's you know songwriting of course so we like to use other songs as references um so right now I'm listening to songs that speaking of drums that have some really cool drums um and I'm trying I'm doing what's called active listening if you haven't heard of that a lot of people have um so for for music you know active listening where you're literally just sitting and listening to the song over and over and you're listening for different you know what you know all kind I mean there's a laundry list of things that you can listen for right now I'm focusing on the drums and the and the bass but the drums in particular cause that's as a as a budding music producer that's probably my weakest area because I've I've I've played I've literally played for fun on drums like once or twice but I don't play the drums at to any level you know so I'm trying to teach myself and understand you know how how do drums work what do the fills look like so I'm listening to other songs that I wanna emulate for so then going into what I'm working on this week um there's a song I have called Happy Ever After and I actually wrote it back in 2,010 um speaking of I was using a reference song at the time I had no idea was actually using a reference song I didn't know that was a thing you know but I was subconsciously doing it you know it's like oh I really like this song I wanna it was amazing yeah cause I was telling you earlier that's the that's the song that I really felt like I was like okay this is I'm really proud of this song you know so I actually ended up rewriting it you know years later after what all I've Learned over the last couple years some focus on the drums you know trying that's that's what I'm focusing on right now with that song everything else is pretty much ready to go but I really want the drums to I just it's a great opportunity to learn more about using drums so I've been you know again watching those logic excuse me watching those logic videos learning everything listening to everything I can and listening specifically like basically tuning everything else out and listening for the drums so that was a little bit of a longer explanation but I'm just really pumped about it so what are your so you said I know you said you were working on your songs with your co writers so yeah which I think one of them is Lori just Bam had lyrics nice you know this is where like co writing I just want to talk about like there's co writing and even reference song and stuff we're talking about I think yeah and um just having this like mirroring that goes on you know because when you're in your creativity all by yourself which we will I know we're gonna do another episode on yeah definitely speaking of community I've Learned about a whole new genre I knew that musicians and the bands but I didn't know it was called shoegaze that's the that's the genre oh I didn't know that either shoegaze interesting he's he's one of these amazing like he knows genres he's just very talented with like that's awesome we have one song we've already written that's in that genre that we didn't oh cool ha ha so back to like reference song so when a song comes in like we're having a song command Lori had some amazing lyrics come in and now we're looking at the genre and the mm hmm and so it's it's just a whole other way of like doing music that um I oh that's so cool that's the thing it's never too late yep we have our first sponsor of the show yes yeah okay nice it's SPF 30 and this is a face stick yep this is specifically for surf but also for the beach or outside walks and they wanted to support our show him and his brother started this business in the 1990s yeah you can it's Headhunter surf com and I wanna say to just know it's never too late um oh I'd love to do that we help clients when they move here my husband will give him a free surf lesson oh my God that's awesome sure oh I bet yeah so Headhunter Sunscreen is going to sponsor us for cool well and I would I'm thinking you know that's a really good um it sounds like it's good and strong for so I live here in the mountains where there's a ski resort and that would be fantastic for you know ski resort or anywhere around the world where there's that you know cause we're in higher elevation you know that kind of thing so I may have to get some of that yeah yeah I'm gonna have to get some of that so what was it headhunter sunscreen com cool headhuntersurf com but it's not just for surf cool sure um so it's a niche brand love it awesome perfect I love it yeah our first sponsor woo hoo alright so let's let's get into the good stuff um you know I'm gonna I'm gonna change that phrase let's continue on with more good stuff how about that cause we just I love all of this uh so you know we've been talking about like our theme for today it's never too late to be living in your creativity so yeah we've been talking about you know today's today's theme is yeah we can't stress that enough because I know you and I have both yeah and I'm I'm excited to get to share you know a little bit like I said a little bit of my story um with you guys so what was that there was a quote from Elizabeth Gilbert yes so big magic Elizabeth Gilbert we've definitely referenced it before we just we love the book it may not be for everybody some of you know up you know something else doesn't fit you know pass on cause some of it was a little bit you know over what I would maybe think of spiritually but there are some really powerful moments in it and for this episode hmm hmm we started kind of retweeking our tagline for the show yes yes and I think this is her quote it's never too late to be living in your creativity um that's from Elizabeth Gilbert and one of the things that I think we were gonna kind of talk about a little bit today too is flipping the script a little bit on like how society tells us you know when we're young right um to go forward and she has a great in the beginning of it on page um I think it's on her page 9 she talks about one of um her friends who you know when you're young and this goes back into your story so I'm gonna lead you into your story cause I mean first I just wanna say to become you know a diver and the gymnast that you became took an enormous amount of work and energy to do and so what happens and she talks about this and I think it's important and I saw this with my teaching and my songwriting is that when kids are young and especially in the middle school and they get into teenage years if you're not showing signs right this is society script if you're not showing signs of being like the best and being the champion and going to the Olympics or whatever that is you get kind of pushed aside and and I'll even say you know told like well you know let that go and just go do something that's gonna support you teaching I'll use mine teaching right and then you can do your your music or your dance or whatever on the side I wanna flip the script on that in this and then say it's never too late to do it um and to not have to have go out and get the career that you're doing that you don't necessarily like and and live in rage and just all the stuff we talked about earlier and that it's okay to like pursue being a creative and also having a job to support you but like what Elizabeth Gilbert talks about is how her her friend wanted to be an ice skater and she gave it up because she wasn't going to be the champion Olympic ice skater she was probably pushed out of that and then later at like 39 40 years old she decided that's what she really wanted to do and she went back and took ice skating lessons now she had already done ice skating just like you had done gymnastics you know I don't think she did it to the extent that you did she would you know and and she was there like in the mornings with the nine year olds getting started in ice skating doing ice skating lessons again because that was what was feeding her soul and now and and it wasn't that became just as important as the career and I guess that's the thing I wanna flip the script is especially for parents that watch this if you see a child who has whatever it is they're interested in it could be in science it could be in stem it could be in music or whatever encourage that growth along with other growth in education because I think that's what happens is it gets kind of like your story so I wanna get to your story because your story that that went we went deeper on when we were talking of songwriting here you were in high school hmm just to become a D1 diver is a lot of work so here you were like working at all of that but you had this little budding songwriter showing up that that a teacher encouraged to come forward and then there's this insane moment that happens that we all experienced at some level that really put that put you in a purpose situation and I'd love for you to share that part of your story and then how like it still didn't like set in for you to go forward so that's kind of the set up for it so yeah tell us more about how you wrote that more about the song you wrote in high school that you shared about before I I'd be happy to uh yeah so boy it was it I feel like it's been such a journey um which I know all of our lives are like that's certainly not unique to me haha so to give just a brief background for for you guys that don't know me um I so I did gymnastics when I was a kid and um I gosh I did it for probably eight years before I quit from like 8 to 16 I guess um and I was uh at at an elite level you know aiming for the Olympics yeah yeah but I but I you know started dealing with a lot of anxiety and stuff and you know it's funny we've talked about this before you know I I thought or I'm sorry nothing from Bernay um I think my inability to pursue creativity at least more in my life at that time was what was causing a lot of my anxiety besides the fact that I had a very intense coach she was good she knew her stuff but she was intense so you know there's that but but it taught me a lot so I'll take it I'll take that so I did gymnastics for a long time when I was a kid my brother played sports you know uh huh and shout out to my mom because she was a single mom supporting a you know I don't know how she did it she paid for our sports we you know it was insane yeah um but the the thing about sports is that wasn't kind of ingrained in us not by my mom just in general that okay that's about the only way that we're gonna be able to go to college but and so that was kind of always my thought even as a little kid I was like okay I wanna go to college someday and if I'm gonna do that I need a sport you know I needed all I could think of was sports you know that you know yes somehow that came to you as the only option and I think that's part of the flipping the script that I wanna do in this conversation that we're having because it is the society puts into this um idea schools do it it's like the whole purpose of school is to pass the test get your test scores up have this you know be able to put on the website currently that our test scores are up here and all this is how many kids are going to college and how many kids are going to Ivy League college when we can get into all of that but it starts really really young and the arts are often times the first to go when there's any budget cuts so it's not supported in our culture and our country very much at all and so it makes sense to me why you would think that at a young age you know again I mean I don't mind sharing my age I mean you know I've gotten over the fact that I'm in my 40s now but great yeah you know when yeah creativity was like no arts programs like everything is getting you know shut down like that just wasn't what you did yeah but that I focused my brain so hard on both that I burnt myself out quite a bit you know and often um so so that was my background to then fast forward when I got into high school my sophomore year actually I didn't even start my freshman year springboard diving so and that's the one meter it's the it's the quote unquote low dive uh huh I did you go off the high dive so the high dive is the three meter you don't do that in high school or at least not in Colorado okay it fit really well I was done with gymnastics I just couldn't do it anymore yeah um you know when I was 10 11 12 I was doing like two hours a day yeah Saturday and Sunday I had off or I had a meet it's a lot of work a lot of work you know I had a lot of health issues that we didn't really realize what was going on at the time so I was tired I wasn't you know I wasn't able to keep up as well as my teammates you know so that was really hard but again my mom and I didn't you know yeah diving just looked like a blast and again I still had that mindset of well I've got to find something that I can yeah and I had the diet or the gymnastics background so I jump jump pun intended into diving and the gymnastics background launched me into yeah you know wasn't just beginner um I had a lot of uh there was a lot of carryover which was nice but the funny thing is you know I ended up making it to state the next year and I placed I think I placed 8th or I either placed 8th or 5th isn't that funny I can't remember and then my senior year oh okay I was the underdog wow yeah you know so in in high in high school that's you know the the big kind of the biggest the you know it's like a Division 1 you know college type thing so I had a lot of competition so I was really was really proud of that but all of that took up you know all my time and I was still do I still do not did gymnastics my freshman year and then it was after that that I quit um you know so I'm doing these sports I did track I did um I did I did not run let's clarify I did not do the track part yeah you know sports athletics that's what I was focused on when I was so again my sophomore year very impactful year yes so sophomore year we get into the spring semester diving was done at this point and unfortunately this was back in 1999 and in April of 1999 is when the Columbine shooting happened I won't there's been other shootings before that but this was like yes it was the first big one that I think we faced as a country of a reality that could now now it's unfortunately more common but it was not then no it wasn't this was this was big and um it was that that high school was 30 minutes away from from my high school um so I you know and I've been in that cafeteria no that's where we did some of our gymnastics meets like it was yeah how intense that was you know um just it even just being 30 minutes away not going to that school but it would yeah so up to that point when I had the time and energy I you know I would do I would actually write poetry um I've loved to sing ever since I was a kid but I never had oddly enough I never really correlated my love of singing and at the time performing it's not so much performing anymore I never correlated the fact that I could do that right well songwriting is really often times very much left out of any kind of elementary middle school high school music or art programs there's a whole separate thing with songwriting that's very different than be going into music that's I just wanna say that I hope that one day I would love to be a songwriting teacher at a high school wouldn't that be so fun yeah yeah yeah but yeah you know what I just realized my so the the the story I'm gonna tell about regarding Columbine I actually just remembered when I was in 6th grade it was a 6th grade it might have been younger than that I um I I was a gosh what's the student counselor yeah ASB Student Council yeah the student council president uh huh I'm like oh well I've gotta be this I actually wrote a song about my candidacy I just remember this like the music teacher there couldn't have been sixth grade so authentic right oh and I showed it to him and I was like can I sing this so I that was probably when I started getting the inkling that I'm like okay I like poetry I like writing yeah so that was actually the first time that I really yeah you know I think my mom still has a picture of me holding that old school you know Mike anyways so in high school so gonna going back to I mean God it's still like just talking about that tragedy you know we won't we won't get in the tragedy side of it cause that is that's just still brutal it is yeah I think it's good to acknowledge that cause I think we have been desensitized quite a bit since on that being a normal thing and it's not it's maybe you know maybe it's a big part of why cause arts are taken out of schools you know I will just say rage and all of that you're not but you know so if you don't fit into the track of like oh you gotta go to college and you gotta do this and then you don't have support I'm not trying to blame I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why kids come uh you know people get a gun kill people I mean that's not it but I I I would say that I there there is I I was a backup dancer hip hop dancer in the uh Hip Hop Nutcracker here in San Diego a few years ago talk about not it's never too late I was in my late 40s and I was the one of the backup locking which locking is a 1980s style of hip hop I was talk yeah yeah and one of the reason I bring this up is one of the dance instructors that was teaching us locking came down from LA and we were chatting about what happens when dance is offered in schools or in community and he said significantly in LA they had um done some research that when there were more arts available more dance studios arts you know a lot of just any of the arts are available the crime went down significantly gang activity went down significantly so I mean that to me is an example of like when we don't have arts in the schools we don't support budding songwriters which even in the arts now doesn't then you are left with rage and judgment grief and where do you fit in into society so you know it's not you know so anyways continue yeah the level of creativity like again I believe that there's creativity in all of us it yes we're born with that and yes you know express it and some people are meant to do it on a professional you know financially paid level and and some people it's it's a hobby but it still has you know the importance yes the importance is the ability to express yourself and know that there's a channel for that and some cultures still have that and ours does not have much of it ours our culture in America focuses almost I would say 95 if not higher percent that you need to be in that professional performance uh level to be considered creative you need to be selling your art you need to be performing on stage and making money you need to be selling your songs you know you need to be a professional dancer like of course yes I want I would love to be on that you know that's like anesthe beyond the backup dancer on the Grammys but that doesn't mean I don't go take dance that I don't perform at a local level that so that's the script or flipping right that's it that you don't have to wait until you don't or you don't give up because you're not gonna be professional a lot of that messaging comes at us in high school and in middle school and elementary school well you're not gonna be you're not gonna be in the Olympics so why try why continue swimming or why yeah well and and talk about flipping the script you know like I think the big thing there is we often are told well if you wanna do you know art if you like somebody let's say somebody's a draw you know painter or draw well if you wanna do that you still need to get a a quote unquote good job so you need to go to college you need to you know go this career path and then you can do it on the side yes you know what I I am a creative and I need to get this out I need to express this to again to whatever level and capacity I want yeah or maybe you go work at a job that doesn't isn't a career job but it supports your art or it supports your path yeah support you well that's true yeah support your you can utilize some of your creative skills you know which I think we talked about that earlier this week like you know for for me specifically I do I have a real estate you know media company because I started realizing like oh I can incorporate a lot of the things that I do one of the things that I challenged myself with was when I started doing the video side of things is every video that I created I would create the instrumental for it right yes but I was like oh what a great opportunity to to push myself with my art and get paid for it in a way yeah exactly you know that I exact that's amazing yeah perfect example perfect example of you know being able to do that so that's when we're talking about flipping the script that's the big thing um but back to your story cause your story of what happens uh with this song when you're in 10th grade is just magical I remember that day it was raining um or there was some sort of weather you know which which to me at the time I just all I could think was God's no you know and I and again I do believe that you know god knows everything that's going on and and we don't always understand why he allows things to happen but I know he was not caught unaware but my 16 year old heart was like god is crying right now like the weather just yeah and so I wrote this song called God what a great download I mean this is yeah yeah you know um but I but I I couldn't figure out any other way to express what I was feeling you know again I didn't I mean I'm thankful that I didn't know anybody personally I knew of some of the people yeah because that honestly I was so fragile at the time that that probably would have just destroyed me um so I'm thankful that I didn't know personally yeah so don't don't hear me wrong there but um but I I couldn't figure like I so I went home that that day just in tears and I I remember the house we were in I remember the room I was in and I just started writing I started doing this poem you know God shed a tear tonight um as the rain fell down to the ground you know so I started writing this this poem and something told me take it to your take it to my music teacher yeah and take it to your music teacher and so I took it to my choir director she played guitar and she it and again this will sound weird because it's over a tragedy yeah there's so much healing in music yeah yeah I mean I'm so drawn to that part of art or that that art you know for me like it's so healing so therapeutic and so she is so yeah so she lit up kind of from a therapeutic standpoint she grabbed her guitar started playing along with me to the melody that I had come up with for it blue she started playing guitar to it and then after like when we were done she said can I can I ask the principal if we have a prom rally on Friday right this was this was like the week before prom um and I don't yeah we had we had prom way early when I was in high school but she's like can I ask the principal if you can yeah and I was I was blown away that's not at all why I shared it with her I just so but I was like well yeah I mean I'd sang the national anthem it's some of my gymnastic actually all the gym all our home gymnastics needs I sang the national anthem so I went you know I was comfortable with doing that kind of thing yeah yeah big deal you know they're not gonna you know she came back to me the next day she's like the year before the prom rally starts you know once everybody's in there and talk about walking through fear cause there's a big part in Elizabeth Gilbert's book you know big magic of and and this is part of when the quantum leaping starts happening oh my gosh you've now put this song together you somebody is like wanting you to go forward you're gonna sing in front of the school you're 16 like this is an event right this is so like I was not only going up against the fear but it was and it's not that I was an outcast per se I just wasn't I didn't know my place and again because I was battling with am I an artist yeah who everybody at 16 is who am I oh no it's only me yeah I think you do that until you're like 55 and then even maybe until you're dead I don't know who am I until we're until we're done with this earth but excuse me so um yeah so walking through the fear of that walking through the fear of oh my God I'm gonna be up in front of you know all these and adjust as a sophomore wasn't even I wasn't even a senior I wasn't even like I didn't even have like that leadership mentality of well I'm the top dog cause I'm a senior so all I could think was oh my God oh my God what am I doing um Friday comes along and again I remember I remember the the gymnasium where we were um it was an old school the microphone sit UPS our system was the kind of that old school like Umm hmm wasn't a fancy sound system or anything and I remember so this is this is important to the story I remember um I wanna say it was maybe like the week before the school had put on the musical that um yeah because the gal that got the leading role yeah you know and I had no idea she could sing and dance and perform and I remember watching her just in aux I was like you go girl like you are amazing I remember finding her the next day I was like Chucky that was incredible like so I was really touched by yeah you know her jumping up to do that so so at the rally you know we get up there my teachers I think my teacher was even nervous to be performing in front of the school yeah I'm waiting um you know with my microphone I have pictures of this yeah let's do yes but I was a total jock at the time like I had you know I was in a T-shirt my hair's pulled you know I wasn't a performer anymore really in my mind I wasn't that childhood performer you know I had put music kind of out of my mind but it wouldn't leave me alone so then we get ready for the prom rally we're waiting for everybody to get in and then once you know basically they figured everybody was in there they turn off the lights and there's a spotlight on me which actually was very helpful yeah you know for myself for god you know for no yes my guitar teacher started playing guitar I sang wasn't very long you know it's only I think it's only maybe a minute long maybe a minute and a half yeah but also you know um and I just got I still I almost tear up at it still because I remember you know stopping singing and within like two seconds it was dead silent for about two seconds and then the gym erupted in applause in tears in hugs like people came down off the stands and I'm not saying the song was you know I look at it now and I'm like well that's a sweet song for a you know a new songwriter but it that didn't matter it impacted like it was the a purposeful song for so many people yeah yeah of my art and what I had to bring you know and I say that because I wanna encourage anybody out there whatever your art is if you're a painter whatever I was able to use my art to help with you know maybe vocalize and you know what I just wanna point out a little bit of how that process happened because it's not this is where it's also opposite of what we learn in school it's not like you sought out to do that you responded to the call so the call was oh this horrible event happened you sat down you wrote this poem and then you heard a voice that said go take this to my guitar teacher and then the guitar teacher was like this is really good let's go and and share this and you just kept saying yes this wasn't planned out that is the authentic true creative nature and path that like kind of when we talked about clearing the channel so unfortunately sometimes tragedy blows our channels apart like cracks us open and that's a probably a whole other episode to get cracked open um and that might be you know what the purpose of those gentlemen those young boys were to like hey wake up crack open you know but to be raw like you were and then just to follow that I wanted to point that out because it's not we're we're that's why I love reflecting on how you got there because it's really about being open and it's really being about to listen to that voice like you said that voice hadn't stopped that voice was going so we can't that's why we get rageful if because if you're trying to if you're going on the path over here that you think you should be on you know um and it's and you're still feeling rage and you're still feeling that like you're probably blocked off and for whatever the part you're supposed to play there's the and I said this in the last heart and I do believe you were the person to play that role in that moment you know Florence Scoville Shin in her book The Game of life and how to play it um talks about there is a role and a place for you to fill that no one else can fill no one no one else can fill it I think Elizabeth Gilbert talks about sometimes when the universe is trying to get a message to us or whatever you wanna call it if it's God for you universe or the big mind you know I don't know whatever people believe whoever's gonna heed the call is gonna do it right and so you you did you like oh there could have been you know some other kids in that school that were getting the same messaging but we're like not able to hear the call or didn't respond to it I don't know that's just didn't wanna listen to it it's too painful but you lined up you are lined up with it and and we're able to through music which is this is what I think art is all about to tell the story of an event that happened that impacted other people now whether that's in art and that's in dance or that's in a song and that it was able to connect other people like that is to me that expression that you did is to me is art and then the reason that we kind of yeah well you know for numerous reasons but one of them going back to our my heart you know that that would have clicked on a light bulb for me like oh okay I've got something here I should pursue this I still didn't do anything with it after that yeah I still focus that was my you know so I focused on diving for the next couple years I mean and you know and it it paid off in some ways because like I said I had the joy of winning state as an underdog you said cause it'd be a fun story and then I got a um a scholarship now this was this was I'm glad that women sports are getting better and better yeah I had got offered as as partial scholarship so partial diving scholarship half half of the basically yeah and I still and I still didn't get like that's hard to get I mean that's amazing yeah and so I so I got that um the interesting thing though is I ended up having to bail out of college two months in um because another tragedy struck and it and it really wrecked me 9 11 cause that was September you know when when 9 11 happened I was I was at the university of New Mexico and again talk about a you know photographic memory like I remember the building that I walked into and I remember the class I was when in when I when when they kind of announced it like our professor was like I don't wait what's going on yeah plus I was dealing with I had come down with mono at the beginning of that summer yeah that's hard yeah you know that kind of you know affected everything I was trying to do um but in a lot of ways I'm like man was I just not listening to the right you know to the voice about you know pursuing creativity and going that route yeah my spirit were like no that's not what you're supposed to be doing you're supposed to be over here growing in your creativity yeah two months in felt like a total failure probably the best decision you made to to leave because you know the freshman high achieving athletes and that and you know and it's not just athletes that the students that are going into their freshman year I think there was a study a few years ago that was like 80% and I could be wrong on this but this is my memory on it 80% of students that are freshmen that come into Harvard are depressed and it's because they've just been working and working and working to get in because they think that's what they have to do and like it's it's there's a balance that we're missing here in America it's like a balance that we're missing right so best thing you could have done in my opinion is to stop what you were doing and when I I mean I knew before I went that I shouldn't be going but I didn't listen to that I was done with diving yeah I I'm thankful that I was an athlete because it did instill some things in me yeah and I but I still push through because again you know going back to the comparison I thought I you know my brother was a Division 1 football player university of Colorado I mean yeah big deal yeah you know when and then so I was three years younger than him so I'm thinking okay this is what I need to do cause he got a full ride I'm like okay I had a half ride for diving and then I was able to earn a half for academics cause I had my high academics um but I had I you know so I withdrew because my health was was crappy I was miserable at diving practice I wasn't able to do you know a lot of the things that I needed to do yeah there's so many people Chelsea I just wanna say myself included I went on to become a school teacher that was not what I wanted to do but that was what I was like okay I don't know what you know that was I told I was gonna do and I think that's like why were you're telling this story too is that there there's so many of us that go forward and spend our the the period of time in our life where our brain development happens and where we are supposed to individual and find out who we are is between like 16 and 25 and so that is when you know we get these moments like you had where you get like this is who I am this is not all of who you are but a part of who you are this is the creative part of you that shows up and it's and we don't have that supported and I think I don't wanna knock like it's I think there's many people who are happy going to school in college and becoming you know in their athletics and so it's not this is not a generalization this is just really more or less talking about the balance that and then and the need for everyone to still have that creative part of them that's expressed in some way and that if you did what a lot of us have been trained to do like your story is right and you've and you've done all the right things like I'm gonna call it all the right things right you've done the traditional right thing it is never too late to then pick up again when at any time in your life and go back to or do something that calls to you and I just my my um so I guess before I say that I wanna ask you so like at what point after that then did you then go into music because did you just quit college two months in and then just go oh I'm a songwriter I'm gonna do music now no that's not how it probably went so like how did you get back into music and where you are right now I'll keep this part short we can I cause this will be fun I can go into some more detail you know down the road with other episodes but um cause I know we wanna we wanna try and wrap up soon but very long story short after I withdrew from college and dealt with I mean I've dealt with massive depression anxiety from that cause I felt like such a failure yeah yeah cause I couldn't quote unquote make it you know as a as a student athlete so had a lot of health issues through my 20s dealt with a lot of fatigue um but even through that I was trying to find my place I ended up I found a church that I really liked at the time and um I had a really good um a good friend that was leading worship there and so I was like well maybe I'm supposed to be you know helping with leading worship um so he I interned with him he offered me to intern with him so I did that for like three years which would which there were some really good things that came out of that but all the while wondering well am I supposed to be a worship leader knowing in my gut that that wasn't the direction for me mmm hmm I'm like well if I wanna be in music then maybe I'm supposed to go this route uh huh trying to follow some semblance of well this is what makes sense and this is what the world says you know whatever that world may be so try that for a couple years just really struggled with that all the while trying to write that was a cool thing about interning um with my friend Jason he was fantastic good dude um Jason shout out to you if you ever listen to this hmm it was cool to see him cause he was writing a lot of the worship songs that we were doing at the time so and but and then some other stuff too you know some awesome side projects and I just he was really inspirational to like why am I not just writing so he actually and he would listen to some of my stuff um also shout out to you Jason for listening to some of those um yeah you know but it was so powerful but again I didn't then you know I stopped I I stopped were at least um helping with leading worship cause I was like okay you know what I'm gonna move to Nashville and I'd actually at this point I'd already tried moving there once um that was kind of the first time I was like no I need to go back to Nashville you know I've got to do music did not work for so many reasons came home and I moved back there another time a couple years later you know so this was through my 20s into my I'm sorry this was in yeah this was most of my 20s that this was all taking place I was trying to figure out who the hell I was who was I as an artist what am I supposed to do with this gifting and it felt like at the time that everything I was doing I just felt this like I would I mean at the time I would really have like conversations with God where I was like what am I what am I supposed to do why did you give me these giftings if if I don't know what I'm supposed to do with them and I you know I never really heard an answer I just it was always like a you know it's not yet you know and that didn't mean the pursuit of them as far as like just spending time you know songwriting and learning my guitar and but do you think the like do you think the concept of making it was like overshadowing a lot and I because I think that's part of our culture too you know it's like if you're not making it you know then um then what's the purpose like there's kind of that attitude and and what does that mean to be making it like what does it mean you know what I mean that could be a whole we should just do a whole episode on what does it mean to be making it because I have a whole different definition of that now than I did like in my 20s and even 30s when I was singing here in San Diego where up on stage where like um you know jewel had just left same area I never met her I never got to see her live I moved here after her but she was kind of the buzz here and then um as I was doing these songwriter showcases in comes Jason Mraz nobody that before he was Jason Mraz and I'm like on these songwriter showcases with them and watching him succeed which is awesome to see somebody succeed but it's like but that's not all of there is in all of this creativity and I think that's the message like when you said that about making it you know it's like you go to Nashville and and when you know there's so much um like I wish we Learned in high school I wish they taught in high school how to get to know yourself yet how to get to know who you are and having that be more important than making it because I think when you talk about all the depression I um took a class a couple of summer oh actually during covid the summer that we were all in covid with the Teachers College of Columbia with Doctor Lisa Miller she had a book out called a Weekend Awareness and you made me think of this because he did a lot of research on brain activity um from age 16 to 25 and when we're in that development of our life our cortex of our brain needs to thicken and there are things that help to do that like meditation she actually brings up church like if you have a religious a positive experience with religion it could be like in nature I would even guess if music is your thing it would be that and it actually thickens the brain of the cortex of the brain and is a defense against depression and that the high number of depression of students in their first couple years out you know in college is actually astronomical and that it's a crisis and it's a crisis for um our students from fluent areas right now and the reason she even started this course so if you're a college student or a parent of a college student I'm gonna do this whole PSA right now and that is that it is extremely important that you know that colleges right now are being educated on how to help students who are depressed so that you don't have unfortunately kids who are committing suicide in college which is a real issue right now and if you have any like if you are feeling some of these feelings that like you talked about Chelsea like and you wanna quit college but you don't feel like you can because you have been in this track go to see a counselor at your college and they will so the course that I took was about running a two month actually 8 weeks 8 week yeah 2 months um group on how to teach mindfulness and meditation and to get to know who you are and and I did this with a therapist friend um partly because my son it was 17 and experiencing quite a bit of the same things you're talking about getting to know who he is we opted not to push him into college if he didn't want to go we opted to let him figure out who he is and he's taking a gap year it is amazing how many people when I say that that's what he's doing and he's happily doing it um wow I wish I would have had that opportunity to get to know myself that's like yeah I I I was expecting different answers but almost everybody says I did not have any idea who I was at eighteen and I wish that I would have that opportunity and so we'll see what happens but I just wanted to like interject that a little bit because you touched on a lot of things about your youth and I don't think when we don't know who we are we can't hear when we don't we're not supposed to know who we are but we sometimes need the time and the space huh and creativity and a life that when you allow creativity allow like walks in nature you allow some mindfulness meditation maybe you do join the the church you know choir or group if that fits for you if it doesn't maybe you do something else but allows your brain to be able to connect to who you are allow that and and there's there's like all this scientific evidence behind MRIs that she did on brain activity and it just it allows you to have a pause in your life in a moment like that we don't get that we're like work harder work harder work harder work harder work harder and um it's you know it doesn't work it doesn't work I also want to point out that what I know about you is that you did go to film school which I think is so cool that you know we can do another episode I think we're probably running close to out of time but like I I think your journey is is really amazing to where you are today and like I'm just so impressed and so honored to know you and to have met you in a in a you know by chance you know by showing up yeah and just kind of wrap up and I know I said long story short haha and it ended up being longer but to wrap all that up I so I went basically I went back and forth through my 20s trying to figure out do I do music do I you know again yeah you know so I I finally I mean it took me 10 years because of my health issues and my mental state to finish my just my bachelor's degree yeah mine too yeah because I was just struggling I went I switched majors I was trying to do music but but that wasn't actually the right thing for me believe it or not yeah then it was business I ended up graduating with my bachelor's in psychology cause I I did find that uh huh then there's a lot of there's so much psychology behind creativity yeah that that's what I ended up graduating and the funny thing is what what got me through my undergrad was when I found um this film school at the time you know I wanted to go to a to a Christian film school because I didn't want to be filming writing doing things that just went against you know kind of my moral so I thought you know this Christian Christian graduate school would be perfect for me so I went there um had some amazing professors I I I think I've talked about it before where you know I got myself into a lot of student loan debt and I wish I'd done things differently and and there are times and I'm like man I wish I hadn't gone to school but I I I at the same time wouldn't trade it for the for the professors that I had Sean Gaffney shout out to you you are amazing um you've had such an impact on my life and Catherine Gaffney his wife you guys have both just I don't think you realize how much you have impacted Dan and me yeah um cause he was a major mentor for me helped me kind of get over myself and figure out you know like hey stop uh huh I'm super passionate about music but I'm also super passionate about movies and film and writing so it's like well maybe that's you know maybe I maybe I'm maybe my creativity I I thought it was music and I'm I'm actually supposed to go into film so I went to grad school for film got my masters um I'm very proud of that cause it was a freaking really hard program I got my Masters of Fine Arts which means basically that's the highest degree you can get in yeah but guess what I didn't move to LA cause my husband and I were like we my so my husband finished his MFA in producing thinking we're gonna be this power couple we're gonna move to LA but by the time I got done with school we're like we can't move to LA at this point I was in my I was I had I was 30 when we got married and he was 39 you know so we're like we're not young guns that can go out to LA and be production assistance you know and be on call 24 hours a day you know we were like so how the hell are we gonna make it in LA and we just didn't feel like that was the right place for us but I don't regret it getting my degree you know my grad degree because all of a sudden it flipped back towards songwriting and what I Learned in grad school about writing and creativity yeah yeah oh and you know what's so fun the something I just Learned through Jody Friedman um who does uh Elite Music in their Sink Titans yeah in LA cause I'm in that program is that um and this is so exciting to me is that when you're writing when you're working in the sink world you're not actually in the music business you're in the television and film business as songwriters think music yeah you know the music that is actually in film and television yes yes and so just like how perfect now so it takes time to figure you know to be following the to like be figuring it out there's no like okay go to school finish your I mean for some people I guess it is but not for me not for you but like here we are we're writing our own TV series and we're both like songwriters and we're both we're both like I you know have had some early on and we'll talk about this in another episode I've been in television you know thinking acting cause I was kind of pushed in that direction was the route it was not for me what I wanted to do but I would try it and um but like the fact that now it's like oh like it there's a there's a feeling to like oh this is it you know like it settles in and you're like no this is what I'm supposed to be doing and there actually isn't like there wasn't like a degree at the time that was gonna show me how to do this so it's more or less like having to figure that out like by living life and clearing the channel and trying out different things and like sorting through life taking what you like leave the rest you know finding out what you like by finding out what you don't like you know just difting and sorting right through life and that part is also a big part of the creative life too I'm just thinking about it right now it's like oh cause like it's not so it is sifting and sorting it is trying to like let things come through and so just you know like what we're doing you know doing the podcast became that is like oh we need to do a podcast on what we're talking about that was not planned at all and even yeah and either was our TV series planned because we were songwriting and like then it was like oh no this is what came through so I think it's just really like cool to let and I didn't realize Dan had gone to college for production too so I'm learning more about you guys as we go and so cool you know and and he's he's I would I would love to have him on the show at some point but um yeah his story and his journey because I know his journey in the arts is not done um I think sometimes he feels like it is and I so I'm holding faith when he when he doesn't uh cause I like I said yeah okay you know again I have a story I have a quick story for him then so a friend of mine's mom when she was in her 70s she was she was she's since passed away so I'm gonna speak a little more um I won't say that her name or whatever but she was alcoholic all her life she got sober at like 70 which is really insane and it's super cool and I remember like talking to her and she said to me you know I've always when this totally goes with our topic it's never too late cause it's never too late to get sober it's never too late to like help yourself first of all and second of all she said I've always wanted to be an actor she's in her 70s right and so she and so next thing I see her she's like taking acting lessons and then all of a sudden she's in a commercial I'm like seeing her in this commercial and she lived for like but think about five years and she lived her life in creativity in those five years and her body was a little um I think damaged from a lifetime of of alcohol however it didn't stop her and she just she became an actress and she was so happy that was the thing she was so happy of fulfillment of being able to do that and she was good you know and she was getting cast so anyways it's never too late see again yeah and we'll we'll we'll keep with that theme like it's never too late because again I mean I'm you know I'm 42 well I just turned 54 last week so yeah no like we're still I think we're still in our 20s no it's so much better now so and that's because we're open we're open our creative creative channels open when when you are authentically being who you are supposed to be you don't feel old I don't feel old and I'll I'll say this um and this will be my last little snippet will I mean there's as I'm as I'm sitting there telling my story I'm like oh I know we'll have more episodes and not from like I please please hear me like y'all y'all who are listening like it's not from a oh well I have this wisdom to impert and I have this wisdom it's just my story makes me think of all these things I'm like oh my god that happened and then that LED to that and that LED oh my gosh connecting all those dots yeah but I will say this talk about reflecting um thinking back to if I had let let's say my dream had come true when I was 16 cause again I've been I had been singing and performing quote unquote you know since I was a little kid just you know around my house but I knew like there was a there was something there I didn't know what it was yet Mona would call it the knowing the knowing yeah well it's I wanna be a singer and a performer you know and um so I remember like or I mean I'm sorry so I go back and I reflect on okay so let's say that song for Columbine had gone to the right person and they're like wow you know what we really love your voice and we really wanna you know so let's say let's say you know not even to the level by any means of like Taylor Swift or Miley Cyrus you know any of those those people even if I had some semblance of success the my personality and my at the time yeah yeah oh so you didn't really have a foundation so like that so that's like a no foundation of of who you are to be able to go forward and to share so that's a big part of like yeah yeah and I mean you know and I don't mean to throw anybody under the bus by any means but I do look at you know like Miley Cyrus like I know you know just kind of watching her journey I watched her you know when she was on Disney and Hannah Montana and then watching her journey you know to I actually just watched the recap of I think it was 2024 Grammys where she's just you know she's like yeah but she went through a lot of stuff I mean we've we've seen the videos you know yeah you're like well that's I have like my own opinion about about any child that's groomed their entire life cause she was as as have a lot of the artists that we see currently now are they really living their true life are they really living in their true art maybe maybe not because they've been conditioned down the like stage mom like you know route so it's hard to yeah see I'm like the non complier on all that so I was not gonna be that kid but yeah hmm and I again it would have destroyed me yeah of who you are yeah and what I'm really created for you know um so you know I reflect back at the when I was going through all that of course I'm going uh my my health is stopping me from being able to pursue yeah it was actually I I think of it as it was kind of had me in this this protective bubble while I was figuring out who in the hell yeah you know and I and I like you said I'll always be figuring that out but there's a solid foundation now yeah you know as a kid and now I have a ton of things to write about for one thing you know cause when you're when you're 16 I mean you know thankfully most at least in the US don't have to deal with a lot of stuff you don't have anything to write about well some some do but but but I don't know if you yeah but you don't know if it yeah I mean some do I know some friends that have by the time we were 16 we we already had stories just yeah you know but it's like I hadn't for me um thankfully I had kind of lived a bit of a sheltered life yeah good you know wasn't around and and made bad choices like I was still sheltered and protected I wasn't you know so all that to say I mean I I look at my journey and I'm like wow okay so I have a lot more to write about good night which was at the time was causing me to write and and sing and perform or want you know wanting to do those things but it would have been for myself now it's I genuinely want it to be for other people you know which that's what you know again that's what our podcast is about like we want you know art to be to be shared in a way that uplifts and encourages and inspires or helps you know get the emotions out or whatever it may be and then seeing what all of that has then become for me in my life um so it's never too late I did start doing you know some I took start like I said I'd take took some production uh coaching with Mike Myers of songwriting for guitar and that was that was terrifying because you know I mean it wasn't it it was a very realistic amount um but you know it was it was a it was a commitment financially yeah you know what he charges I love the way he teaches he's a great teacher guitar teacher yeah yeah with everything cause we don't have a lot of money yeah it was that important I knew that I was supposed to coat like get coaching with him so and that was it yeah I was 40 I had yeah that's January I was like okay it's time you know and now I'm learning all these different things that it's like these I for one thing I didn't have access to him back when I was trying to do music as a yeah so different now we have a lot hmm we can do this podcast yeah yeah I see now why some of why I went through what I went through um you know that brought me to where I'm at now so be encouraged by that yeah exactly yeah yeah see where it's where you've been see where maybe it's taking you um I know we were gonna go into we're gonna talk about um resistance in this amazing book that I wrote we're gonna talk more about big magic yeah we should just continue on the next episode and talk about the resistance because when the older you get I think the older you get and you're getting you haven't engaged in your creativity and you're now like you either blocked off maybe you're in a lot of rage grief and judgment and sorrow you have that's the resistance right the resistance is and like um I remember not like wanting to go back to dance cause I quit doing dance like actually I quit after high school um after being on a dance team and doing all of that and performance but then like I would just take like cardio hip hop like at like like step aerobics or whatever just to keep it going and then in my 40s I really want to do a dance team again I joined I would like I said I was in the Hip Hop Nutcracker I did um I danced on a hip hop dance team where we performed at UCSD and in Pacific Beach and I horrified my 13 year old then 13 14 year old because I'm all dressed in hip hop gear and um and I was like living my fantasy of being J Lo the blond J Lo or the blond and living color and I still take dance classes I brought so many of my friends to dance classes who are actually I will tell you the thing about dance I think dance is a great channel clearer beginning to crack that open because if you can find a really good and we do like cardio hip hop yeah you go to the back of the room I take friends like we're going to the back of the room and you just gonna dance with the music and just try to keep up and it doesn't matter and I have a number of them who now are regular regulars there and it's now allowed them to have all this other creative stuff show up in their life so they're not gonna become dancers but the dancing has helped you know and it's and speaking of my boss who I think we're gonna I haven't asked her yet but I'm gonna ask her to be on one of our guests he started dancing at I think 75 ballroom dancing and competes with Mary Murphy who is um from so you think you can dance she has a dance studio here in San Diego and she is probably one of the most lovely people I've ever met I've done I've take I've performed with her I've taken dance classes with her um she is so much fun she is one of the best and most patient dance teachers I've ever met um so I think it's just never too late it's never too late so I would love to hear about hear from you guys if there's anything that you've ever dreamt ever heard that like I always wanted to do this you know it doesn't matter maybe it's to you know maybe it's not arts maybe it's in science or maybe it isn't sports or maybe it is my mother in law ran in the Senior Olympics she was an athlete wasn't allowed to perform you know was she was a actress actually and wasn't she's the opposite of what you were talking about and really was an athlete so you know what in her 50s she ran on the Senior Olympics and she won gold medals you know so um yeah it's never too late you know brief brief quick example and uh you know my mom um when she was in her I wanna say was when she was in her 20s she used to sell her she just used to make her own clothes oh yeah yeah yeah but she she made her own clothes you know she enjoyed sewing and she liked fabrics and colors did not think anything of it um you know and then years later you know now she's gotten back into sewing and she's yeah she was so cute cause she's like will you come look at this blouse that I made you know and it's beautiful yeah and she's still working on you know kind of perfecting parts of it but I was like that's amazing you know like I'm so proud of you for because she really struggles with perfectionism yeah she and I mean we're cut from the same cloth in that regard so resistance is perfection is a part of resistance the way let's do that on our next episode we'll talk about the resistance and how perfectionism gets in the way yeah I think we'll leave you guys with that because um I know for me like the there's a book called The War War art yeah as the author and I will just say this so yes I would definitely wanna delve into that next episode because it's it's been a powerful book for me even now um and I will leave you guys on with that book I will leave you with this note so he says at the very beginning um he says most of us have two lives the life we live and the unlived life within us yes oh how exciting I can't wait to talk about that hmm you know what he talks about like he lists off a bunch of things that that I know all of us will relate to you know what resistance is and any also gives you know here's how to fight it cause that that's about the idea behind his book yeah yeah yes this will be a little bit longer episode but I just I I'm so thankful to be able to kind of share that story yeah I mean like Christy said you know write us let us know like what is your passion you know and yes there may be limitations you know and maybe you can't you know go back and be a you know Olympic gymnast but that doesn't mean you can't find yeah you know and I'm oh yeah I have a lot of friends that have started doing that that's like a big thing here in San Diego there's one literally that opened maybe in five minutes from my house and you meet yourself where you're at right you meet if I haven't tried this yet you go in and I know my girlfriend just that she's one of the gals I took to dancing and that's what she wanted to do is rock climbing it's funny you say that she now has gone through passing all you know you go and you take a course you take the beginning course and then you start meeting other people that are at that level and she has a community of rock climbers and she you know and now she's like she can climb she does all kinds of stuff but um yeah yeah pursue it any further than I just think it'd be a good workout and it'd be a fun way you know cause I don't do heights outside of well you're strapped in she says you're strapped in yeah okay but yeah so so you know again it's never too late you know write us just or share share on our Facebook page or Instagram you know what um what are you passionate about yep whether that is art or whether it's a sport or whatever and maybe you know even if you don't have any answers for you know how you might go about pursuing that even just getting it down yeah that can be the first step you know so let us know yeah or reflect reflect like we've been doing a lot of reflection in our bed episode so reflect on yourself if you have you know a journal you're starting to write you know reflect a little bit on like when were those first moments that you what were the things that like brought you joy when you were a kid that was really you know singing was such a big one for me and that's when we're so free is when we're young you know what were those freeing things that you could do that like we are we get lost and there's gonna be grief I'm not gonna doubt you know there's grief grief and growing up grief and the loss that we didn't continue but it doesn't have to stay that way that's the thing you can acknowledge like you're gonna feel the grief you might even feel the rage you might even feel the judgment and the shame you might self shame it those are all gonna be probably part of this resistance on the next talk but like but it's okay because deep in there is still that unlived person that found joy in things when you were young that and it might be make you might wanna go back I mean I can go back to when I'm like 3 years old and remember stuff a lot of people can't do that but you know just do some reflecting and then you know let us know we'd love to hear from you to whatever detail you want I will I will throw this out um just for our social like again and I think I said this the last time um any any comments like we will go back through you know so any comments that are deemed maybe not appropriate or um you know offensive like we're trying we wanna keep this a really safe yes the way won't respond to those yeah no that's not the place there's other podcasts to do that exactly and we say that for our listeners that you know to encourage you like we are not gonna allow for that kind of garbage keep it clean yeah well and it's gonna be a safe place yeah yeah and some of this may stir some of that rage up in you or some of that you know what we are talking about uh and that's okay that's okay but um you know writing about it talk to a therapist um you know you know um in healthy ways in healthy ways in healthy ways don't try and stuff it down like I did for a long time you know cause that'll just that just makes everything worse um so alright cool well you know quick quick repack recap again you know it's never too late don't give up um find what you love you know reflect pursue um again we talked about the artist way we big magic and then if anybody wants to get you know the war yeah we'll talk about that next time we'll talk a lot about that next week um so yeah and we'll have stuff up on YouTube soon and just um you know go to our Instagram Facebook follow us follow along we'd love to have you that's it yeah have a good week everybody we'll see you in Episode 4 sounds good talk to you guys later