this is the creative download hosted by Christy Bruneau and Chelsea Nettleton created by creatives to inspire and encourage others to live in the fullness of their creativity last week we talked about resistance and by the end of the recording for episode 4 we realized we had a whole lot more to talk about than just one episode's worth so we broke it into two episodes here with episode 5 we're picking up where we left off with the quote from The War of art let's jump back in he basically starts off the book here let's see there's a secret that real writers and we'll put in their artists there's a there's a but but he you know he's a writer so he puts it towards writers there's a secret that real writers know that wanna be writers don't and the secret is this it's not the writing part that's hard what's hard is sitting down to write what keeps us from sitting down is resistance yeah and you know what I want to just respond to that quote because this is this was something that really helped me a lot that um I Learned in the and Judy Stacy songwriting development mm hmm yes yes mm hmm exactly cause I cause we're talk we talk about songwriters let's just say somebody writes a hit song and actually um I just I'm I actually have this idea from these guys that do they're called Songtown and it's I'm trying to Clay Mills and Marty Dodson are both songwriters working songwriters and they talk one of them talks about this and and they have a podcast called Song Town that I listen to about songwriting and I do it a lot because to work on the resistance because but they talk about how one I can't remember which one it was that said how they had written a song mm hmm nice you know writing room with someone and the other writer is like okay so how are we gonna beat that okay so oh God that's not a good way to start a session and so like you might have like a success in writing or in art or whatever but like the creative part is not the success the creative part is the actual act and the process of doing the work and so I think that's the biggest difference in the that's like a big part I think actually there's some talk about that in the war of art like them under the process because if you meet yourself where you're at in the process maybe you did have a hit song but currently in that moment right right uh huh yep right meet yourself where you're at go from there and not a focus on and focusing on the process uh huh uh huh result becomes what it's gonna become right right and I think like to the the part that I am need to sit I that I wanted to sit down is like to work on my guitar right same haha right now I have a songwriting team right uh huh uh huh uh huh right yeah collaboration I'm the I write the melodies and I get to sing favorite thing to do we have George Slavik who's amazing on guitar he's really intuitive and great he does the guitar and Lori's an amazing lyricist Lori Gilbert she's writes all these amazing lyrics so it's like ah I just get to do the fun stuff that's kind of where I'm at but there's that the force the voice is like well you know right right the comparison game ugh haha I'm not as good as George and I don't and I shouldn't be right doesn't mean you can't do like play I was gonna say a lot of this is for ourselves hahaha we realize it hahaha songwriting for guitar mm hmm mm hmm yep yeah his big thing yes 15 minutes a day people trying to do a half hour 45 minutes an hour and it's like he's like do 15 minutes my critical chorus wants to get going that I should be better or I should be this or I'm not as good as that person or I'm not as good no and so I have these new voices to combat that resistance that says okay yep I love it isn't that cool though no it's so that's so authentic it's I love you for sharing that cause I totally get that and I know other people will too and it's been to with guitar and me instruments same bad yep yes same so I just skip chords if the chord is like okay the B chord sucks oh it's awful yeah I hate the B core too I know I totally get that yeah yeah yep okay so that means I have to sit down and learn an inversion and your fingers are so used to one way talk about resistance that I just called myself out on not knowing how to beat the play the B chord I mean I literally skipped it in a song that I went yeah I know so you know just stuff like that like I'll do that and now I say that out loud because I've had this voice going on saying you really need to sit down with your guitar practice some inversions if you don't know what an inversion is yeah I I yeah yeah I get it I get it conceptually but I couldn't explain it either not right now you know and it's like I the little things like that uh huh right right and and that's like an internal thing mm hmm yeah big time haha you wanna yeah it's funny funny you should say that funny you should say that because I actually just read this yet this part yesterday so again this book is not thick um I mean it's not it's a thin it's a you know not a big book but it is thick with with such good stuff um so I mean I've been slowly kind of just you know eating eating chunks of it as I go but I read this yesterday resist okay so this is one of the things that resistance is resistance is fear I'm sorry this is kind of the overall of what resistance is resistance is fear and he goes on and he says but resistance is too cunning to show itself naked in this form why because if resistance lets us see clearly that our own fear is presenting preventing us from doing our work we may feel shame at this and shame may drive us to act in the face of fear and resistance doesn't want that so rationalization is resistance spin Doctor so with resistance it become you know is rationalization and we rationalize away oh well I you know I don't have 15 minutes oh I don't have this and that was my whole week this week that's why I'm that's why I'm like authentic with y'all I could have found time for my art but I rationalized so many things oh I'm so exhausted I've been working so much I've been I've I've had edits to do for a thing that I volunteered for you know oh I'm da da da da yeah well that guess what that rascal rationalizing you know so was spin doctoring away as he said all these ideas yeah but I love what he says that you know that resistance is fear and and so actually that's a that's a good good leap into um so the the first section of the book is it literally just says book 1 or you know it says book 1 in here it's all in the one book but so we'll call it part 1 is resistance and underneath underneath that it says defining the enemy that alone three words was powerful yep big time this is what I wanted to say earlier and that's a great lead in I really believe that when we all come to this world as little kids little babies we are emotional we are creative it is like just who we are and our culture at least for the time I've been alive has really like submit been like uh not supportive of that in the sense that our school expects us to be a certain way are you know you know we don't have we haven't had good um language until recently like the last probably five or 10 years maybe five years on how to identify emotions oh oh yeah emotional language yeah yeah that's true maybe too a little too much haha I'm just kidding I'm just kidding haha right right exactly so it so it so it early on our our um enemy so you wanna call it the enemy of that creative emotional part of us is the external it's the oh my 3rd grade teacher or my 4th grade teacher was the art teacher he's we no longer have art I have a really happy memory of being in art class my 3rd grade year and we had freedom we could chew gum we could create what we wanted to create it wasn't so rigid like a lot of art even now in school is like very like to the to the test you have to be able to like accomplish a certain thing that was my experience with art in elementary school it was not fun it was rigid I didn't like it yeah mm hmm squash down yeah yeah like so that's the enemy that creates the resistance cause we're and that's where we wanna hide that uh huh right oh yeah yep yep I wanna talk about the external enemy the other external enemy is that you have to then if you wanna have that creativity and emotion then it must be used to good use it must be it must be wonderful and good and it doesn't allow that little creative artist to grow and and to actually develop so there's no development and then you have the internal enemies who are created as a result and that inner critic that intercourse like oh how dare you show anybody that you like that or oh I don't know if I should show that like we were talking about you know creating the safe space of who to show your art to right who to share this with because if you share it with people who are like the that are are Julia Cameron talks about them like they're they're um uh buried artists oh shoot yeah I can't remember where you just are not you're you're a frozen artist I guess I could call it a frozen artist um and the resistant artist I mean okay this is a horrible example because I know that like nobody wants to like be compared to Hitler but there is a lot of research that has gone on about him wanting to be an artist it's in here it's in here hahaha cause that's in the very beginning yep let's see if I can find it real quick and they have nowhere to go no one to talk to about it it really creates madness it really does it creates so much anger and so much hatred and um right to think about that to use that as yeah exactly it is and it was amazing and I really like I'm going to take the time to find it you know cause it's I I'm so glad you said that yeah it's towards the beginning I I almost even remember the page cause I was like holy crap I can't believe that that you know that that was you know the case for him um our uh our politics needs creativity training haha like maybe maybe our podcast will make make its way to the higher UPS right I think yeah exactly oh my gosh yeah it was I remember putting a sticky note on it I can almost remember even what the page looked like and I hesitated to actually reference it because yeah it was like oh you know I don't wanna make light of this but he talks about you know Hitler in their um let me see resistance of healing that has happened to him yes right yes certainly not the only but I think it's Alice Miller wrote for your own good which is a book that is not light reading I will just tell you right now I was reading it one time at the beach and my husband says what are you reading about and I said well right now I'm reading about Hitler's mother haha and he's like ah I'm like not I don't even want to know what you're not reading but um I did read it and um and it does talk about like mm hmm ugh awful and even in our culture for children that the that children stuff you know the ideals around parenting oftentimes were very um we uh huh oh my God yeah it creates you know most people psych in psychology and psychiatry I've heard say and I've taught a lot of this historic part in my education that's why I know a lot about it was um you know yeah yeah it's amazing right right haha right excuse me I did find it cause um I literally I have a little sticky note this is you know when this was the library book it says last line wowsa um so just this last part um uh let's see and the and the and the section on this one says the Unlived Life which meaning you know you know not not pursuing the things you're called to do so again like you said this is just part of it but so this is the like kind of the last paragraph he said you know Hitler wanted to be an artist at 18 he took his inheritance 700 kronen I don't know how much that is and you know but I'm sure it was a lot moved to Vienna to live and study he applied to the Academy of Fine Arts and later to the school of architecture ever see one of his paintings neither have I resistance beat him call it overstatement but I'll say it anyway this is Steven Preskill call it overstatement but I'll say it anyway it was easier for Hitler to start World War 2 than it was for him to face a blank can blank square of canvas yes but I mean like but to face easier to start World War 2 than to face a blank square of canvas like how much like again not with without making light of that horrific historical event how many of us can relate to that that it's like it's the I I catch myself vacuuming when I really don't need to cause I did maybe really recently because I just can't sit down to work on my art you know uh huh uh huh oh uh huh uh huh when you get into your creativity haha pugga sorry haha I love her so that so if you hear that that's that's sweet pugga that's Christie's dog uh her little pug she's adorable so if you hear that that's what that is haha and we don't mind it at all she she's she's dreaming I love it that some of this grief and sorrow or anger or whatever that comes up right uh huh oh hundred percent uh huh I think that creating the sick gosh we gotta do collaboration next because the the the one of the things I hear on both Saint Titans and and with Judy and Mike and their hitmakers is really to create that safe space that so you can have that vulnerability mmhmm you can have this vulnerability mmhmm we're writing right now a very vulnerable song for me yeah that makes sense yeah and she came up with this these lyrics that have just I are just uh wow like and it's it's um it really I'm like wanna write I wanna sing this so bad because there's a part of me that lived this and uh huh uh huh to have that kind of vulnerability that is also not taught in our education nope right and not do it too fast because if you do it too fast and then you know you like let out let somebody see this side of you that's so mmh mmh yep that can cause some serious trauma so it's like when you I mean we we were talking about Hitler and he caused the trauma that he had he brought upon the world yeah extreme example of it but it's but it's there uh huh right you and I are yeah but why as a society which on that note uh you know to our listeners maybe y'all can keep us accountable cause maybe we maybe you know may not be a class in in high schools or you know even college or anything but I think we need eventually maybe after you know we get going with our podcast a good while we have a course on you know creating that safe place collaborating like specifically be you know being able to create like I have I have this vision and this dream of wanting to do a course like that like there's a lot of courses out there on how to do your art there's a lot of you know and there and we Learned a lot of that like the collaborating and that kind of thing and some of you know Judy Stacy stuff and Mike Myers stuff and I've Learned some from Heather Evans and you know Jody and Mike like these people that we know or that we've met or worked with but I think it'd be really cool to like focus on a course you know that people can take that it's like teaching how almost how to release your creativity like the whole like the pre pre pre creating part of it you know digging deep I mean I'm not saying that's like a breakthrough oh my God nobody's ever done that but you know I know there's books about it but maybe you know I don't know let us know if you guys if that would be something that would be interesting to to you guys I don't know just just kind of a thought but it'd be kind of neat um to share that from ours um you know it's like see there's a reason that you were a teacher there was a part of that this is what I love it's like looking at backgrounds it's like I know that wasn't your dream cause you're an artist but it's so cool to see that like you have so many things that are coming to help from that yeah yes ah don't worry about it yeah uh huh yeah yeah recording at night doing all this stuff and I had all these little kids fourth graders some of them with like the English English is their second language too and we were in this mode in education we're still in it and it's ridiculous and and don't get me wrong it's gonna sound like I'm the words are not gonna come out right right right right the standardization of things their first language is Spanish or Chinese or Vietnamese I mean I live in San Diego yeah I um all over the world yeah I call it like the world like I had kids all over the world Africa Europe you know yeah a plethora the true melting pot yeah so getting them to read and write in this really boring structural way that we had moved to which is awful I'm just gonna say I don't teach anymore and I remember sitting in my son's second grade class in the writing lesson and was like shoot me no wonder no one wants to write so I've teamed up my that year with an art program that had a grant to do art in class and I decided to combine it between art and writing nice yeah yeah fun I can't remember what it is now cause I don't think it's around and I did a field trip to Balboa Park which is historically a beautiful park here in San Diego it's built in the like late 1800s and they had these little portable cameras before we had cell phones this was before that how fun ah I love that photo journalist from the San Diego Union Tribune came to the school class kind of prepped us to go what photojournalism so they went with the idea that they were photojournalists oh my God what a great idea that's amazing oh they want they felt most comfortable which we know as educators that if you learn to write in your first language then writing in the second language yeah yeah right because I was I wasn't focusing they kept pulling me out my class my school kept pulling me out to go oh gosh it's working leave me alone but it wasn't writing to the test man uh huh yeah at least I left teaching because why you know I mean and I got I got laid off too they were laying us off and they don't pay yeah yeah numerous things but that was on the top of the list and so then I turned to I would substitute for a lot of the music teachers and I would not teach music I would teach songwriting so I you know cause I don't have songwriting in the um lower education of you know I don't know anywhere that has songwriting is a right right but non high school yeah mm mm you know yes but that was like kind of the you know mm hmm yeah mm hmm yeah so I just wanted to I wanted to the first part of the book of the war of art it was really cool I wrote down so he it's it's in bite size chunks you know it's not this big you can read like a section yeah that's why I say it's thick yes yes right now I'm doing big magic that one's on my list to get it what thriftbooks com yeah in case we didn't mention that the website for it yeah and what I do is I sit down and I read one page and then I kind of process it and I might write a little bit about it you know in my morning pages so that's just my I love that yeah and I think I think that's kind of one thing I'm gonna start doing on the mornings that I do have a little bit more leeway a little bit more time like I like to and actually you know what okay we're gonna just take a little second and talk about so going back to our morning pages cause I know this is something that Christie and I will always encourage no matter what kind of artist you are if you're a physical artist and I hope that I hope that's a good word for that guys if there's a guys and gals if there's a better word out you know that for for our painters our drawers um you know if there's a better word than physical artist let us know um we're gonna call it that for now visual artist well you can be a performance artist well that's what I was thinking like that's what I'm thinking like that so the drawing painting that kind of thing you know of literally physically you know creating some sculptures and then we've got our dancers you know uh body art and then we've got you know so things like that whatever your art is what do you what do you call it you know what is the overarching of that let us know and if you yeah and if you don't know which I believe she is and I believe that we all come here as creative beings a very true yeah what is it that you like to do you know and maybe that's a maybe that's the first part of our course is discovering what is it that you so yeah what yes the freedom mm hmm I'm gonna tell you right now for me it was dance oh yeah no question yeah I know you talk about dance yeah yeah I know I met I know I mentioned this for me and so so going back again to when I was a kid I know I mentioned this before cause my brother told me about it he listened to the at the our first episode and he's like I think I could still find that picture but I still have a picture so mine you know when I was a kid mine was you know not not as much dancing like to dance dance cause I was a gymnast but you know dancing performing singing so I have this song you know I have this picture that again my brother my brother jokingly says he's gonna blackmail me with it someday um that I you know I've I've got the total 80s well I guess this was this would have been like late late 80s very early 90s um polka dotted you know dress that just and I've got a fake microphone in my hand and I am just you can tell in the picture that I am just I am just wailing it out like I'm you know I think at the time you know I was thinking of like Whitney Houston the song was a Wilson Phillips song I will never forget that um so shout out to Wilson Phillips y'all inspired me no inhibitions yes um which which Christie maybe that's our next song that we and I uniko write no inhibitions um but yeah so but when I skate so there was that but then the other thing that sticks in my head so much is storytelling because whether it was at the pool which I was a fish I loved the water which water is very healing for me I think that's a very important thing to know for yourself what is a healing what is something that's healing for you where you can go um water was very healing I was at the pool every day even on stormy days and the lifeguards didn't like that cause they usually wanted to go home and I was the only one that would stay there if if if it wasn't lightning um and I would my my my best friend and I yep I was a total oh I know and then I became a lifeguard and I'm like man you damn pool rats it's so true but my best friend and I would when we were at the pool when we're in the water we would create stories we were mermaids usually cause I mean it makes sense you know but we were we would create these stories of who we were and our backstories I mean not knowing what we're doing you know just just enjoying you know being these characters creating these characters and then if we weren't at the pool we were usually at her house she had a way cooler backyard than I did so we would create these stories we played lost in the wilderness which was a game we made up wasn't even a game it was a story so I'm like storytelling uh huh if you're listening uh huh uh huh uh huh no inhibitions uh huh uh huh uh huh so that's the thing we get kind of I think that's where like when we go to school we get kind of like everything gets compartmentalized you know this is how we're gonna do this now um it's like I would even go before that I would go back before that oh before it became something that was like kind of structured okay yeah yeah I like to think back you know I think they say think back to when you were like 7 6 5 maybe kind of your earliest memories of what what did you do when you were a kid what did you do with your time you know what did you what it when you had time to yourself what did you go do you know did you sit and draw endlessly you know that kind of thing so so for listeners ponder that what what was that you and and we might be surprised cause even as I was thinking about that at mine just now I was like oh yeah 100% I was a singer you know I would sing along to songs I have videos of me singing I have me dressed up in goofy outfits I remember oh my gosh so this is just a funny little thing and I won't say her name um just in case I don't want to embarrass her um but this was a friend that I had in high school and I don't know if she remembers this anyways um I'll just call her B um just in case she ever listens to this and she'll recognize it if she remembers even in I'm sorry not in high school I think it was it was either I think it was middle school um because we were young enough to still kind of have no inhibitions we would go down in our in my basement we'd set up our my camp quarter we would dress up in the goofiest outfits like I think we I think we wore my brother's clothes cause they were big and baggy and we would lip sync and dance around like we were in like a music video and I wanna say it was like um Smashing Pumpkins you know and I mean we just like head banging something nothing I would ever perform we had so much fun it was ridiculous you know just know it we were we were allowed to be free nobody was around it was just me and her you know and it was so much fun you know so think of things like that you know where it's like when you're not afraid of people watching you what did you do you know um it's a so and and write us like if you figure that out let us know I'd love to know again social media email you know just write us maybe I'll try and remember to put that as a question on our social media that you can answer on Facebook um you know or we'll put up a picture in Instagram that you can respond to um cause I just I would be so curious I would love to know what you guys see from that for yourselves um when you were little mm hmm yeah and I hear this sometimes in the songwriting development like oh are you working with anybody are you collaborating with anyone cause when cause you know we can kind of box ourselves in right oh yeah definitely me too no question people who are actively pursuing their creativity uh huh right I was reading Big Magic at the time I wasn't actively in my art um but when I went there we went to Seattle and to Victoria I went on this so I kind of have these off shoots and I I went on a photography kind of um adventure that's how I do things right if I can't do my like songwriting or whatever I will find other things and so mm oh cool yeah just like the architecture and like just you know Space Needle and like all the stuff that we did and I had all I have all these amazing photos that I took that like filled that part of me but when I was with our friends he's a performance artist she's a sculptor his friends were like uh uh filmmakers yeah yeah yeah it wasn't just something they did it was they were it was it was yeah they were living in it they were doing it yeah yeah that's awesome and I um brunette or not Elizabeth Gilbert talks about her dad and big magic and I think this is important because I'm not in a place to live fully in my creativity as like work I want to I'll put that out there right now I wanna be this would be my dream is to be a salaried or income producing I'll say income producing so I don't know about salaried yeah yep yep uh huh uh huh uh huh yep that would be to me and that would be like all I do like that is my dream but we can't always we I'm not gonna if I'm not doing that now I'm not gonna wait for that time I'm not I'm gonna do it while I'm working to the level that you can yeah you're doing it who was an engineer and but he always kept this creative side going and this is the part I loved is that he was very natural for him it was very much being in nature it sounded like so at one point he wanted to raise Christmas trees that's what he wanted to do he wanted to grow and raise Christmas trees so they he bought it some land and that's what he did he was an engineer and he rose raised Christmas trees and then he wanted to raise goats this is what like I would raise goats and he had all these goats and he raised goats and she said that was a big part of her watching him cause if he only did engineering right right quote unquote left brain stuff she's became this fantastic writer but she didn't have she wouldn't have had any of that modeling so she kind of uses that as like oh he was showing me like modeling how you keep your creative life in your life so I guess the idea with resistance is to not let the resistance just completely take you out of you having creativity in your life that's like the goal for me so if I can't be writing I can't be in it doing what I wanna be doing it I find other ways mm hmm mm hmm right right and and I think that's a great point too because it's like it's not that it even has to be anything that you know brings necessarily brings an income I mean ideally I mean I'm with you like my ideal kind of day or life or whatever would be um it would definitely involve songwriting especially for sync um for film and TV um script writing you know whether that's I mean I have some film ideas and then also you know TV writing I love TV writing but a big part of that also I can I can see now that I'm like I have a passion for teaching encouraging inspiring but I've never kind of known what for and obviously the fact that we started this podcast I now know what that is you know what that is so I could totally see that being a big part of so helping to develop other artists um you know in the niches that I know uh and then maybe teaching on it you know in some way yeah giving back when you give back like I watched like I watch this full circle thing right like we're doing it now I feel like this is for us but it's also for others and when we do that we're creating this thing I don't even know what I want to call it yet creating this thing that um is not that's not it's a creative but it's a creative like um momentum but it's comes loop yes it's very cyclical like it's you know what it's not like we're not like it is a creative cycle that includes other people outside of our you know sharing with other people before I mean this is the whole purpose right sharing with other people before we actually have it's we all we see all the finished product all the time that's what we normally see we don't see the in between we're like saying we're gonna talk about the in between oh which is what we talked about and I think we'll maybe share some of our demos as they're going as opposed to the finished product you know so you so in the future we may have like I have two I have one demo that's just me and the guitar George playing guitar me singing not completely done yet um I think he's working on two of them but we'll share the demo as it's going like what it sounds like when it's just in the very beginning stages of our songwriting you know and it's and demos nowadays are really pretty polished but then when they're produced with at a yeah the pre deum yeah so I mean you so I think what we're doing is like just giving a um connection for people to see like oh okay this is you know cause that comparing thing that oh well I'm not Taylor Swift that's what my little seven year old students why I wanna be Taylor Swift no you don't really wanna be Taylor Swift you wanna be you but they don't want they don't you know it's like you can't a seven year olds hard to get that but like but that's like yeah you know and it's like oh well you know if I can't be Taylor Swift and that's what I'm being kind of model that and I don't have this in school and I can't really or I don't have parents that are supporting that because they want me to perform then I just might as well give up yep yep or they can't can't do it or the resistance takes over and I I think we'll wrap up yeah so this one this episode will definitely be a two parter yes we should do two parts on this so you the part that you're listening to right now is the is the end of part 2 and I think to wrap up with book the the first part in this book about resistance being the reminding yourself resistance is the enemy like that is the enemy that we're dealing with as artists but yeah the cool thing is he also talks about he's like you can implement all this stuff into other stuff in your life weight loss eating healthier taking care of your body blah blah blah but so the the first part of it I'll just wrap up with saying so he talks about these are the different sections that he talks about like so part 1 is defining the enemy which again is resistance we'll say that over and over and he and he then goes into each of these but just to give you kind of an overall of part 1 resistance is and then these are the different things he goes into mm hmm I had to look that word up cause I've heard it serious yeah um impersonal infallible universal never sleeps plays for keeps fueled by fear only opposes in one direction most powerful at the finish line and it recruits allies ooh most most powerful at the finish line that's why it's so hard to finish a song or like or to like and if it's good if it's really good the fear gets really harder so yeah so just know cause I mean I've dealt with resistance so much of my life that I did not know what it was I just thought I didn't have discipline I wasn't motivated I I I was lazy I you know no it's resistance you know and so just the fact that you can name it and call out the enemy, you know, Resistance and it's important to discern between it being resistance if you have and self Protection and that's healthy because I do think that and that could be like as we go into something to talk about in our collaboration episode because I think you do need to have discernment I do think there are people that you really don't wanna send your music to or you there are some people that you really just don't you so you there is a level of discernment a safe space so when you create a safe space you can lessen your resistance you can be open to hearing and learning and growing you it it then you build that muscle I guess you could say that confidence that's like that was talked about this week you build your confidence um and then you know you you also learn some discernment I feel like that's that's for me that's an important part of being able to recognize my resistance and say cause if somebody gives me instruction go do this and I don't have I haven't built like you know what to do with the song and I haven't built trust with them which is probably why when Tom Ferry said gave me instruction he's not a songwriter or creative person so my response from him was maybe a little appropriate in the sense that oh he doesn't know he's not he's on stage doing Na Na Na wasn't a safe I thought it would be a safe space but now I if I went to his brother who teaches coaching for creatives that might be more the person do you know what I'm saying not that I wouldn't go to him but for songwriting you know oh but but now I we have coaches I have four coaches right now that I work with the songwriting that I trust and they've built that trust in a way that I would if Judy says to me that line doesn't work in this okay I'll fix it what what should like oh yeah I'm gonna move that so my resistance is I'm gonna move that line to my lyric bank and hang on to it cause I love that line I'm not getting rid of that what do you think we should do next what's your suggestion that's a whole different thing than being like she hates my song oh my God I'm never gonna get to you know yeah it's not a hit which is what you know I mean God I did that for how many years you know when again you know using my mom as an example and again I love her to pieces but you know she she is this is another thing that's not taught is how do you give feedback how do you give criticism constructive criticism is important see let's talk about that in our collaboration cause I think that is yeah you know how to how to listen and talk how to give critiques if you're the one critiquing and then how to take it but also how to ask for it you know like you know I I go to certain people I'm like hey so for this song I all I really need to know is how is the mix of all the instruments I don't I don't need it I and it's and that's not wrong to say I don't I don't want or need anything else with this cause maybe I've already worked with you you know for example you and Pete and now I just need another set of ears on the final you know how's it all sounding together I don't the the lyrics are not changing yeah we're good with that we're like yeah it means that that's a that was a different set of people ha ha ha you know so and again you know oh gosh can't can't reinforce enough you know having a safe space with you know who you share those things with oh cause yeah cause going back you know so like with my mom um for years you know when I I I wanted so desperately to share just like a little kid bringing home a you know piece of artwork you know and wanting their parent to say oh my gosh this is so good and put it on the fridge right you can't obviously you can't do that with a song but I just remember like when I was little and I'd either sing something for her that was already out there but I wanted to sing it for her or you know when I was writing like poems and stuff before I really kind of started make you know turning into songwriting you know having her listen up or when I got old enough and I did start doing more songwriting she didn't know how to critique it you know and and again we're she and I are both very authentic you know sometimes to a fault and so she meant well but it I didn't it wasn't it wasn't the right thing for me it was not the I didn't need critique I needed encouragement and so that's so knowing your intention of what you need if you can you know these are all good things to teach maybe you're right maybe we should do a little yeah cause you're like I've Learned a lot of this in these last like year and a half on like how to how to do this and it's not like you said like we were talking about it's just not taught like you take art class or music class you're learning the instrument but you're not learning the critiquing and how to take critiques and how to you know I mean maybe some are I but I've had to learn it this last year now depends on the teacher depends on the teacher yeah yeah he was great Mr Spooner his name is Mr Spooner shout out to Mr Spooner then haha alright guys yes I know we may you know we'll come back we'll come back on this yeah but again you know yeah reach out you know send us send us some we've we've asked a couple questions throughout and we really I promise we really do wanna hear from you um we're not just saying that so so shoot us an email jump on our socials um yeah follow us like us share that would be awesome we would really really appreciate that um I will throw back out there that you know on our website you can support us yep yep you know like the yeah um but just liking and sharing and sharing or liking you know commenting and sharing is is so amazing for us like that support means the world to us so um that right there is enough but if you want to do more there is the financial um aspect of it that super easy yeah yes and Bruno yes I do too well until next time and Chelsea I'll see you I'll see you before next time go on we write our our series yeah how our writing goes with our with our episode like our TV show yes coming soon yeah yeah alright bye thanks for listening to the creative download hosted and produced by Christy Bruneau and Chelsea Nettleton and edited by Chelsea Nettleton